Originally posted by Barry_Duncan
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My first Prosumer Coffee Machine - What to buy?
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Thanks Barry. Thats really good advice around temp surfing and while the dual boiler Breville is tempting, however i really like the look and feel of the italian machines. I tend to agree that the Breville looks to be more a short term investment where a Lelit or Silvia would last me a decade with some TLC.
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All great advise so far...not i am thinking should i buy new or second hand. I have seen a second hand machine which looks ok - ECM Casa IV. Or a second hand silvia could be an option....get it a little cheaper, practice, service it and if it need to upgrade it with a PID.
I think i will go to my local sponsor in Sydney this weekend and test drive a lelit and silvia to see how they go. Talking to a sponsor will help me see how they work in real life.
Also has anyone used a ECM Casa IV - the one i looked at for second hand looks great. Single boiler machine.
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If you must have an Italian made machine by all means go to a Site Sponsor and get a Silvia or Letit etc. A friend of mine likes his Lelit, however his has a single boiler and no PID. I have no financial interest in Breville, I just own and use one. While the Breville Dual Boiler is built in China, it was designed in Australia and some of the important parts like pumps and valves are made in Italy.
How long will The Breville Dual Boilers last? No one knows. They have only been in use for three years. Mine was among the first sold and is still going strong. I got mine from Dennis Wells at Cupacoffee, when he was a Site Sponsor in Sydney. Chris at Talk Coffee sold the first ones in Melbourne.
A lot of CoffeeSnobs are understandably critical of Breville because of the crap machines they produced in the past. Their dual boilers are different. They were produced after their coffee specialists and engineers widely researched domestic and commercial machines to see what was desirable in their domestic machines.
By the way, Breville is a Site Sponsor.
Barry
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There's a lot of debate about temp surfing with SB, non-pid machines and the fact that the Breville/ Sunbeam DB machines can be "ready" really quickly and not need to be surfed.
BUT, this site has little evidence of the owners ever measuring the actual brew water temps.
there's a lot of "my breville is up to temp in 3 minutes"
(and my old sunbeam dual TB was the same) but the actual output temps of the water was far below the required temp without pumping through hot water to fully heat the group and piping. or giving it at least 15 minutes to heat properly.
So it seems a large number of users may "think" the smarts are doing it for them, but the reality is the temp is no closer to ideal than a non-PID'd single boiler machines.
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Your boiler may be up to temp, but that certainly doesn't mean your brew head or group handle is, and that can make a noticable difference to the result in cup.
TBH too much is made of temp surfing on a silvia. When you just make it part of your workflow for making coffee it really isn't a big deal. Even if it is painful for you installing a PID is so simple that I really wondered after doing it why I hadn't done it a long time ago
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^^ exactly,
Even my dual boiler Lelit with PID still requires time or pumping through hot water to get the group hot.
By using my own version of a Scase device. I know how long it needs to be on for or how much water to purge through to get it hot,
and how the boiler temp (displayed on the PID) correlates with outlet temp at various stages of usage.
There's a lot of talk and snobbery regarding the subject, but only a small percentage of users actually doing the testing for themselves.
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Faced with a similar situation, I liked the Silvia but wasn't particularly keen on temperature surfing. Ended up getting a second hand Silvia with a PID from a fellow CS member. That's worked out very well, I've had the machine for over 2 years now, and am optimistic that I'll be able to sell it when it comes time to upgrade in the future. They are definitely well-built machines, with decent care they will last far, far longer than any Breville or similar.
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Hi all,
Ended up getting a Lelit PL41LEM today and a compak m3 push.
I went to jetblackespresso and had my mind set on the rancilio silvia but the Lelit looked pretty awesome. Plus the salesperson said they sell 10 Lelit to every silvia's. Was also told that it's a bit easie to get a good and consistent shot than the silvia. Also has a larger drip tray.
Well I managed to get a couple of good shots in the end.
Has taken about 250g to dial this in and get my tampering to a point where I had a good shot.
Well I think it was more my bad tamping that cased the issues :-) gotta learn somehow
Anyhow wanted to thank you all for the advice and assistance. Couldn't have done it without you all. :-)
One happy beginner coffeesnob!!!!!
Here is my setup now
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I agree with your purchase madaxle :-)
Was my first machine and I loved it so much, was very sad to see her go. Once you nail down the variables it's easy to get the very same results every time. Good double ristrettos on the double basket.
Never could learn how to use the single basket though, well only within normal parameters with a bit more blonding than I would prefer but the taste was still passable.
If you do not have the custom made tamper for the machine from Jetblack Espresso I would highly recommend ordering one, it made one hell of a difference.
Money well spent. Definitely not a disposable machine, it will last you forever if you take good care.
Also, welcome to CS
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