Re: EM6910/EM0480 Combo Problem: No extraction at
Hi Chris,
I own a silvia [which is notoriously fussy for correct grind/tamping and an EM0480 [which is notorious crap for its giant-grind steps]
based on what you have posted ....and kudos to you, its a pretty thorough-well thought out process of elimination ..... I tend to agree it is a problem with the pump in the 6910........unless, and
[Please excuse my stupid assumptions]........you are missing a simple factor that no-one else has identified:
At what point are you looking for your coffee-flow?
Most proper espresso machines [given correct grind/tamp/distribution] will/should produce signs of an extraction only after 5-8 seconds of hitting the brew switch, and the 6910 may actually take a little longer as it includes some sort of pre-infusioon routine.
I would not expect a machine to produce any extraction in less than 5 secnds.
You should expect to see no coffee extraction for the first 5-8 seconds and then see the "honey" flow, at which point, ideally, you would see a 2o- 25 sec flow to the onset of blonding.
I have had numerous problems withthe EM0480, but the fact you have tried other [non EM] grinds, should eliminate this as a factor.
Usually, I would get the right extraction at a setting of 13-15, but recently, this has slipped to 5-8.
Good luck.
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Re: EM6910/EM0480 Combo Problem: No extraction at
Im glad thats all sorted out....good luck on your journey to drinking better coffee.
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Re: EM6910/EM0480 Combo Problem: No extraction at
Your post plus what I saw from the Gaggia rep prompted me to take the grinder back and get it replaced. I plugged the new one in and set it to 16 (the top of the range the manual for it suggests for espresso) and the grind came out about 3 to 4 times the diameter of the initial grinder on 23. On 23 the old one felt like Talcum powder, the new one on 16 feels rather gritty.Originally posted by Wushoes link=1176429489/0#4 date=1176446404Yes it does...could be your burrs arent mounted properly.
A good sensory test is to rub some of it between your fingers. It should have the consistency of salt and pepper for lack of a better descriptive. It should be fine but at the same time have some grit to it.
I threw it in the double shot basket, tamped quite firmly (as compared to before I couldnt even tamp with finger pressure) and got a gloriously underextracted 60ml shot!
Im sitting here now with a weak, under extracted coffee and couldnt be happier, because I can always grind finer and tamp harder.... Whereas before I had nowhere to go.
Thanks again for your help. I would have been much less confident convincing the sales staff that the grinder was *broken* even though it ground fine without your example of what the grind should feel like.
Now, off to get some more beans tomorrow and get practicing.....
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Re: EM6910/EM0480 Combo Problem: No extraction at
Yes it does...could be your burrs arent mounted properly.
A good sensory test is to rub some of it between your fingers. It should have the consistency of salt and pepper for lack of a better descriptive. It should be fine but at the same time have some grit to it.
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Re: EM6910/EM0480 Combo Problem: No extraction at
Thanks for the replies.
Yes I am using the regular filters. I havent even opened the box with the dual floors in it.
I have already done the test you suggested to check the volume of water coming out - the double shot program produced a bit under 90ml. I did the same with the single shot program but I didnt measure it - it looked roughly half of the 90ml though.
I did get hold of Sunbeam and they told me to run the machine with the cleaning disc in and report what the pressure went up to - it went dead vertical - which they said is fine. They believe it is more likely a problem with the Grinder producing too fine a grind and advised me to take the Grinder back.
I also saw a Gaggia rep in the Harvey Norman today that had the Gaggia MDF grinder and the coffee they had ground (on a setting of about 7 out of 20 she told me) definitely felt coarser than the grind I get out of the EM0480 even on the coarsest setting.
Does this sound plausible? I just dont have any way of seeing a benchmark on what an average grind is except from the Gaggia I saw today.
Thanks again.
Chris
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Re: EM6910/EM0480 Combo Problem: No extraction at
There would be a lot more water than 30 and 60mL coming out....try something like 50 and 80mL. The puck soaks up lots of water and without any coffee...you should get a water deficit of around that much.
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Re: EM6910/EM0480 Combo Problem: No extraction at
Gday Chris,
OK, let me try to help you out - obviously youve gone to a lot of steps to try and get it to work without success.
My first question is - are you using the "regular" filter or are you using the "double floor" filter?
If you are using the double floor filter, its not intended for fine grinds, but the coarse grind that you get in supermarket coffee.
For fine grinds that your EM0480 is capable of, you need the regular filter and *not* the dual floor filter.
Heres a simple test that you can do - ensure that your portafilter has the regular filter fitted.
Fit the PF into the group head and position a cup underneath the spout. Press either the one cup or two cup buttons.
You should get either 30 or 60 ml of water, and your pressure dial should hardly register anything, since theres no grind in the PF (so no backpressure).
Cheers,
Lawrance
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EM6910/EM0480 Combo Problem: No extraction at all
Update 13-4-07 21:20: Solved. Problem caused by a faulty Grinder (EM0480).
Firstly, thanks go out to anyone who can comment on this. I dont normally post on forums unless I am truly stumped and have exhausted everything I can think of. Any help is much appreciated.
Onto the problem: I have just bought the Sunbeam combo of the EM6910 machine/EM0480 grinder and have run into problems even getting the 6910 to produce a shot of coffee at any level. The pump is going, but just cant seem to push the water through the group head (flows fine when there is no coffee in there, so the pump is working at some level).
Trying not to be too verbose, here is what I have done:
Initial Attempt: from posts I read on this site, I set the Grinder to 11 and tamped the double shot basket firmly (but with nowhere near the 30 pound suggestion I have seen posted here for the 6910). Pressed the pre-programmed double shot button, pump fired up, the pressure indicator went up (a little above the gold area, about halfway into the section just past the golden area) but no coffee came out. Removed the group head and the coffee was wet. Thought I must have to fine a grind, so tried again...
Second attempt: Set grinder to 15 (after a complete cleanout), tried a much lighter tamp (three finger pressure) and repeated... much the same outcome, but a couple of drops came out.
Next attempt: Set grinder to 20 (after another complete cleanout), a very light tamp (two finger pressure) and repeated... much the same outcome, but a few more drops came out, maybe a couple of mls.
Next attempt: Decided to change tack and used a pre ground pack I had bought a week ago (not a supermarket one, a coffee house that I had asked to grind it for a stove top); exactly the same type of results as 2 and 3.
I have had 15 or so attempts over the last 4 days and the only time I can get anything at all is with a grind of 25 (even though the 0480 document says it only has 24) with barely any tamp. Even this morning I dropped the grinder to 22 to have another try and nothing - and that was pressing the manual button which is supposed to deliver 240ml - maybe 3ml at best. And that was with two separate attempts. On the first attempt, the espresso gauge stayed in the golden zone the entire time and still nothing.
Ive tried two different coffees in the grinder as well; from two different places to get that out of the equation...
So... to my mind, the logical guess would be that the problem is with the pump on the 6910. Its just that I dont know how fine fine ground coffee should look. When comparing the stuff I had ground for stovetop to the grind I get around the 11-15 mark, the bought one actually looks slightly finer, so I would guess that the grinder is OK, but even at 25, the grind is still very fine, only just passable for use in a plunger (which I really dont want to do, just as a comparison).
I was just after confirmation/other opinions/ other things to try before I start the return process as I know how difficult that can be sometimes if you are not 100% sure about what the problem is or where it lies.
I have left messages with Sunbeam as well, but am waiting to hear back from them.
Any comments would be greatly appreciated. Although I am definitely a newbie in this area, I have been going through these forums for over a year now in anticipation of getting my setup and researching the techniques for making good coffee – I know that doesnt mean much, but I just wanted to distinguish myself a little from the people who just purchase setups like this spur-of-the-moment and then expect it to be easy. Im definitely prepared to learn and practice to get results, but I just dont think things are working as they should…
Thanks again.
Sorry for the long post….
P.S. Went for the Sunbeam over the Silvia only because my wife wanted the easy to use – without thinking type functionality that the more consumer targeted Sunbeam is supposed to offer.
Shutting up now….Tags: None
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