I want great silky coffee! Help

[BrazilianBean]

Hi there CoffeeSnobs,

Our em6910 just kicked the bucket after a solid 5 years. We were reasonably happy with it, but I have always felt there might be something better out there within our budget $600-1200.
We are looking at upgrading and after reading threads in this forum I'm considering:

Lelit Combi (PL042EMI)
Rancilio Silvia V4

and also thermoblock/duo boilers:
EM7000
BES920

From what I can tell, the Silvia and the Lelit are better built but as they are single boilers, I'll have to texture the milk and then pull the shot.
Is the espresso quality that much better with these machines that I won't care?
We like our coffee milky...
Am willing to fork out the extra money if the coffee is that much better and I can still texture the milk in time

Help me choose!

[TC]

Welcome brazilian,

Given your short list, and that you are used to simultaneous shot and steam, I'd buy the Breville. It's a step up from what you have and doesn't sound like a jackhammer.

There is a possibility it will be at the tip within a few years, but that's the case with all appliance machines.

Alternately, we have a client with an Expobar Office Control just serviced. It runs at the correct temp (unusual for some of these) and is in great nick. It should be well within budget if it tickles your fancy. PM me if you'd like his details.

Good luck!

[kaanage]

As I stated in another thread, I'd try to find a 2ndhand HX machine rather than an "appliance" brand machine.

As for the single boiler machines mentioned, the Sylvia will make a slightly better espresso than the LeLit IF you get EVERYTHING right but I'm betting the time it takes to transition from brew to steam (and back) will annoy you after the EM6910. It does steam quite strongly once up to temp, though.

[TampIt]

Hi there CoffeeSnobs,

Our em6910 just kicked the bucket after a solid 5 years. We were reasonably happy with it, but I have always felt there might be something better out there within our budget $600-1200.
We are looking at upgrading and after reading threads in this forum I'm considering:

Lelit Combi (PL042EMI)
Rancilio Silvia V4

and also thermoblock/duo boilers:
EM7000
BES920

From what I can tell, the Silvia and the Lelit are better built but as they are single boilers, I'll have to texture the milk and then pull the shot.
Is the espresso quality that much better with these machines that I won't care?
We like our coffee milky...
Am willing to fork out the extra money if the coffee is that much better and I can still texture the milk in time

Help me choose!

G'day BrazilianBean

If you can get 5 yrs out of a 6910 (my older 6910 is Aug 2008, still fine) then the 7000 should come close to doubling it. Much lower maintenance, easier to live with than any domestic machine I know (a very long list) plus inbuilt cleaning cycles. Think 6910 with most of the annoying features removed. Oh, it also is easier to make a better coffee. The steaming process is also more idiot proof (even has a consistent, if somewhat notional, milk temp gauge), however in my case I did not notice any difference in the quality of the microfoam compared to my 6910s. Newbies found it a lot easier to learn frothing.

Worst 7000 "feature": Some idiot in SB replaced the long vertical tank / side filler with a short horizontal / middle filler. Filling the machine if you have it under a bench is a comparative PITA as you have to move it out a long way (thx to the central filler, no short cut), and of course it is easier to slosh water (wider tank) as you move it back under the bench. At least it holds a bit more aqua...

Most welcome new feature: holds three+ baskets (15, 18 & 22 VSTs in my case) either side of the water filler - keeps them hot and dry (unless you splash them when refilling said PITA filler...).

Welcome brazilian,

Given your short list, and that you are used to simultaneous shot and steam, I'd buy the Breville. It's a step up from what you have and doesn't sound like a jackhammer.

... and TC clearly has NEVER heard a 7000 - quieter than any DB Breville with a fraction of the power consumption of any DB machine (doesn't heat ALL the water just to make a cuppa). There is are a lot of good reasons why chem labs use big thermoblocks not boilers to accurately control temperatures...

As to TC's constant sniping about domestic machines, he also denigrates my Mahlkonig Varios with that term - a ditting commercial module with ceramic burrs that will outlast ANY steel burrs by a factor of three... you can make your own call as to his credibility on that score. BTW, one of my Varios has done well over 100Kgs and the burrs are still unmarked...

TampIt

[TC]

As I stated in another thread, I'd try to find a 2nd hand HX machine rather than an "appliance" brand machine...

Agreed. A non appliance is likely be around for a whole lot longer.

... and TC clearly has NEVER heard a 7000 - quieter than any DB Breville with a fraction of the power consumption of any DB machine (doesn't heat ALL the water just to make a cuppa). There is are a lot of good reasons why chem labs use big thermoblocks not boilers to accurately control temperatures...

As to TC's constant sniping about domestic machines, he also denigrates my Mahlkonig Varios with that term - a ditting commercial module with ceramic burrs that will outlast ANY steel burrs by a factor of three... you can make your own call as to his credibility on that score. BTW, one of my Varios has done well over 100Kgs and the burrs are still unmarked...

Nope- not interested in anything which a thermoblock. I really don't care if it whispers you to sleep!

It's also a whole 6 days since we had a Vario sales pitch. Thanks for giving us all a break.

I have but one problem with the Vario. It's ridiculously overpriced for what it is. You call it denigration, I call it a difference of opinion. It would be good value at about $350. Regardless, you have taken us off topic again as the OP was not asking for grinder recommendations.

To the OP- Brazilian: Here's another option from the HWFS forum. I'd personally have it over any Sunbeam- any day.

[Dragunov21]

As to TC's constant sniping about domestic machines, he also denigrates my Mahlkonig Varios with that term

Purely in reference to the machines (not grinders), I wouldn't call it sniping - look at the number of parts which are easily replaceable/available for a reasonable price and the potential service life of the machine "categories" he's defining. He might have a strong opinion that you do not share (as to what is an acceptable service life), but it's not like he's writing off the "appliance" machines completely for those who need a certain feature set at a certain price.

[chokkidog]

1. 'Never say never', let alone in capitals...... you simply cannot make that claim with honesty.

2. Your sniping comment re appliances came immediately after Chris had recommended a box branded appliance to the OP.

3. 100kgs? Really? Big deal...... it's nothin' to boast about.

4. Your banging on about ceramic vs steel is a red herring and misleading.

5. ...censored. :-D

[BrazilianBean]

Thank you for your comments, everybody!
So, transition will be difficult to single boilers, but they are more durable and better tasting once you get the knack of it?

BES920 is a step up form EM6910 and so is EMM7000, but they are appliance machines and therefore less durable.

How much do good Italian duo boilers cost? Or would that be way over my budget?

[dan110024]

While I can't comment on other machines, I've had the Breville DB for around 18 months and it's very capable of putting out a great drop. The service and support by Breville have been great (recently had a buggy/noisy solenoid replaced under the 24 month warranty). Many people have compared it to the $2000-$3000 machines. Sure, it's not your go to brand when you think great coffee, but it'll definitely impress nonetheless.

[Bosco_Lever]

I would never compare the BDB to any $2-3k machines. It is an appliance and is in its own category. Period!
Resale value is zilch, so if you are buying a machine with the intention of upgrading in the future as skills and money permit, then the best option is to buy a 2nd hand machine. The one suggested in post #5 is extremely good value. I would like to see a BDB last five years with such minimal repairs.
While the BDB offers a lot of gimmicks, it does not offer durability.
Buying a dual boiler will not guarantee better coffee, a good hx machine will provide the same result.

People need to stop reading internet fairy tales about the necessity to spend big dollars on coffee equipment. With a hand grinder, kettle and plunger (and fresh beans), I can make a better black coffee than 70% of the coffee establishments on the Gold Coast. And that is being conservative.

[kopigeek]

I want great silky coffee! Help

There is a second hand HX for sale in the forum that was just listed. If I were in this situation I would definitely enquire.

[Dragunov21]

So, transition will be difficult to single boilers, but they are more durable and better tasting once you get the knack of it?

I wouldn't count on getting significantly better-tasting espresso from the "machine" SBDUs over the "appliance" Breville DB - by all accounts it makes very good coffee.

Speaking as a guy who bought one of the better SBDUs (Quickmill Alexia PID), if you're making milk drinks regularly, I would consider the BDB or a used HX. You'd take a hit on the BDB at resale or if it carked it in five years time, but I think you'd be better off regardless unless money is particularly tight.

[cdhjrf]

If your after great tasting espresso put your $ into a good grinder first. There's been plenty of guys producing great coffee with high end grinders and low end machines.
I personally have had appliance machines sunbeam and breville and bang for your buck and user friendliness their hard to beat. I have experienced the high end Italian machines too, with fantastic steaming power, can be a little less user friendly, but built super robust since they are generally using commercial internal parts will last a lifetime in a domestic environment.