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  • Midrange buying advice

    Over the past 2 years I have been using the following espresso machine and grinder, having been able to borrow them over that period from relatives whilst they were overseas:
    - Vibiemme Domobar Junior
    - Eureka Mignon-E red grinder

    As my relatives just returned from overseas and I returned their machines, I had to fallback now (temporarily) on a Nespresso machine, sufficient to say I need to find a new machine fast!

    As I am used to the Domobar coffees now, I want a machine that produces the same quality espressos, long blacks, flat whites and lates, but I am not too aquianted with the market.

    Having done some research, I identified the following (but frankly open to any suggestions!):
    - Vibiemme Domobar Junior (ie just buying the same unit as the one I've been using)
    - Vibiemme Picollo (the smaller model - I don't mind getting my water for my long black from a kettle instead from the machine itself)
    -
    Lelit combo (seems to get very good reviews, and I don't mind the combined grinder combo)
    - Isomac Zaffiro Due



    Based on my research to date and given I never purchased a $$ coffee machine before, I am leaning towards the Lelit combo, but unsure whether I will be disappointed given I've been using the Domobar Junior for so long... Any recommendations would be appreciated!




    Last edited by WaKkO; 3 July 2016, 08:04 PM.

  • #2
    I had a VBM Piccolo before I went to a larger VBM and it was quite good. There is a minute or so wait to steam milk until the machine heats up.

    Greg

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    • #3
      That's going to be the biggest annoyance with a single boiler non hx machine. The wait before you can steam milk.

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi WaKkO and welcome,

        I think a little research will assist you in making your choice as you are looking at two dramatically styles of machine here- being single boiler and heat exchanger.

        You are accustomed to to a heat exchanger, so single boiler may be too big a step down for you.

        More details in our buyers guide if you wish to avail yourself of it. Happy shopping!

        Chris

        Comment


        • #5
          Having just upgraded from a Silvia and Rocky to the Domobar Junior and Macap M4D, I can only say - should have done it sooner [emoji106][emoji3].

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks all for the advice so far. Thoughts to date after doing some further research:
            - we are not going for a combo coffee machine grinder
            - my wife is keen to go for a heat exchanger. I am still not 100% convinced we need one given we don't froth milk on weekday mornings.

            Comment


            • #7
              Agree withe the above, I wouldn't want to go back to a single boiler after being accustomed to a HX.

              Also, you seem to be focusing on the machine ... don't forget to include a quality grinder in your budget. It really does make a bigger difference to your coffee than the machine does, especially if they aren't milk based drinks.

              Good luck.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by WaKkO View Post
                Over the past 2 years I have been using the following espresso machine and grinder, having been able to borrow them over that period from relatives whilst they were overseas:
                - Vibiemme Domobar Junior
                - Eureka Mignon-E red grinder

                As my relatives just returned from overseas and I returned their machines, I had to fallback now (temporarily) on a Nespresso machine, sufficient to say I need to find a new machine fast!

                As I am used to the Domobar coffees now, I want a machine that produces the same quality espressos, long blacks, flat whites and lates, but I am not too aquianted with the market.

                Having done some research, I identified the following (but frankly open to any suggestions!):
                - Vibiemme Domobar Junior (ie just buying the same unit as the one I've been using)
                - Vibiemme Picollo (the smaller model - I don't mind getting my water for my long black from a kettle instead from the machine itself)
                -
                Lelit combo (seems to get very good reviews, and I don't mind the combined grinder combo)
                - Isomac Zaffiro Due



                Based on my research to date and given I never purchased a $$ coffee machine before, I am leaning towards the Lelit combo, but unsure whether I will be disappointed given I've been using the Domobar Junior for so long... Any recommendations would be appreciated!




                The Lelit Combi is compact, clean (ground coffee falls on the drip tray, not the bench), easy to transport, makes great coffee and it's excellent value. Worth a look for those after a machine and grinder.

                A HX comes into it's own when making bigger batches of milk coffees, or when the customer is after a machine that makes the process as simple as possible (no switching from coffee to steam mode). Note that heat up time is usually 30min+ compared to the Lelit Combi which is 10min.

                A Dual boiler will give you the ease of use of a HX but will generally heat up faster. Starting at around $1,500 (eg Lelit PL60) this type of machine may be worth a look too.

                charlie

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks again for the input everyone. we decided to go for a heat exchange machine. Yesterday evening we settled on a Bezzera BZ10 and a Macap M2M grinder. Later that evening I started reading about the E61 brew head / brew group and now I don't know anymore :/
                  - Is the coffee produced with a Bezzera Magica or equivalent with E61 better than the BZ10 coffees?
                  - is it worth the extra $$$? +- $400 difference it looks like

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by WaKkO View Post
                    - Is the coffee produced with a Bezzera Magica or equivalent with E61 better than the BZ10 coffees?
                    No.

                    Originally posted by WaKkO View Post
                    - is it worth the extra $$$? +- $400 difference it looks like
                    On the basis of being a true E61? I don't think so. Unless you prefer the style/finish and ergonomics and that is worth the price difference. The BZ10 looks like a great little machine.

                    The E61 is proprietary so you pay a bit more but nothing wrong with other HX machines in the same class that are not true E61 machines.
                    It does mean accessories etc. for E61 machines are universal and easy to source.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by K_Bean_Coffee
                      Hi WaKkO,

                      Shots from the BZ10 are on par, with nice even extractions (no spurting using a naked PF).

                      Disclaimer - I'm not saying the BZ10 head is better than an E61 - obviously
                      I have no idea what the design of the BZ10 head is like. But I'm fairly certain this comment above is misleading.

                      A properly ground/distributed/dosed e61 shot won't "spurt" from the naked group, same with a BZ10.

                      At a guess an improperly dosed/ground/distributed etc shot from a BZ10 will channel and spurt same as an E61

                      As a sponsor i would have hoped/thought you would put some more thought into posts. People see "sponsor" and expect accurate info, or at least I do.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by applor View Post
                        No.
                        The E61 is proprietary so you pay a bit more but nothing wrong with other HX machines in the same class that are not true E61 machines.
                        It does mean accessories etc. for E61 machines are universal and easy to source.
                        Is this strictly true? Any patents on the E61 would have well and truly expired by now, meaning anybody can copy and use it's design.
                        Many manufacturers use the E61.
                        If it is more expensive (and I don't know myself whether it is or not), this may be due to the its extra complexity and ability to perform preinfusion.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Lukemc View Post
                          I have no idea what the design of the BZ10 head is like. But I'm fairly certain this comment above is misleading.
                          .
                          No. You've just read it wrong

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by K_Bean_Coffee
                            I'll elaborate on my own quote above to give you full context: "Shots from the BZ10 are on par, with nice even extractions (no spurting using a naked PF) when used by me (ie, a skilled operator). The untrained operator will get the same spurting mess with the BZ10 as they will get on any other machine"
                            I hope that clarifies Luke. I hope you can see what I was getting at now.
                            Cheers
                            Paul
                            Yep it does, thanks


                            Originally posted by trentski View Post
                            No. You've just read it wrong
                            Maybe......

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by K_Bean_Coffee
                              His wallet was FAT
                              Number 4 is disgusting
                              Careful, with some of the threads going around here it may be considered a breakfast food

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