Best machine under $1200

[Yelta]

haha, I imagine you guys would get a laugh over my desire to not upgrade for 15 years Everything you say rings true. Maybe my brain says the breville but my heart says the Lelit (or other Italian style machine). I generally listen to my heart,

No laughs from me Joe, sounds very much like common sense.

Buy the best you can afford, you won't regret it in the long run, easier to use and longer lasting by far.

A good E61 machine would be an excellent choice for longevity.

[crazyjoe]

I have the dual boiler now and I do enjoy it. I can’t fault it. As joe said I bought it knowing if I wanted when it breaks I’ll upgrade. I say to most it’s a great buy if you budget a few years from it but wouldn’t be 10 years. That would be the exception.

The quote form is as you mentioned. Just say what your feeling. X is my budget and I’m thinking of ABC. Any advice etc. they will recommend and offer a price.

cheers mate.

[rusty888]

I have the dual boiler now and I do enjoy it. I can’t fault it. As joe said I bought it knowing if I wanted when it breaks I’ll upgrade. I say to most it’s a great buy if you budget a few years from it but wouldn’t be 10 years. That would be the exception.

The quote form is as you mentioned. Just say what your feeling. X is my budget and I’m thinking of ABC. Any advice etc. they will recommend and offer a price.

[crazyjoe]

The BES920 is great buying at $700ish. Will it last 10yrs? If you look after it there’s a good chance it will. Will it last 15? That’s more unlikely. Don’t count it out altogether, but realise that it is slightly lighter when it comes to build quality than the Lelit and it will give you problems if you don’t treat it with due care.
I think any of the Lelits represent very good value. From a value stand point I’d put them above any of the other ones you’ve mentioned. Do you need to spend $1500 to get the PL60? No, you don’t, but maybe you should. What I’ve learnt through my ‘home barista’ journey is that spending more and getting the best machine you can afford will definitely reduce the likelihood that you’ll want to upgrade soon. However it won’t eliminate it altogether, so if the entry level Lelit will work for you (and potentially make things a bit easier on the home front around the $$s spent) then it might be the way to go. It may mean you want to upgrade in a few years, but at least a Lelit will hold a reasonable amount of value, especially if you’ve looked after it properly. A Breville won’t do as well in this way.
So buying a machine that COULD last 15yrs is a good plan. Realising that you probably won’t keep it that long can’t hurt either. LOL.

haha, I imagine you guys would get a laugh over my desire to not upgrade for 15 years Everything you say rings true. Maybe my brain says the breville but my heart says the Lelit (or other Italian style machine). I generally listen to my heart, especially if my brain says "yeah, go head buddy, its not a bad call". I assume the lelit's are still pretty easy to use for a novice (grind and tamping and dosing are still things I need to control on the breville).

I guess I dont see the Lelit PL41TEMD as entry level. I guess it is for proper machines, but I'd put my Saeco via venezia at entry level. Im assuming the lelit will be a bit improvement over that and a big enough improvement to warrant the cost. Not sure myself if dual boiler is needed? I have single boiler now and dont mind waiting. its time to get the milk and my cup and spoon etc.

Increasing my budget might be possible but it seems im looking at $500 (or a 1/3) more than the lelit PL41TEMD. thanks for your help!

[crazyjoe]

Couldn’t agree more. I was taught what one can you afford and go one level up from there. So if you think you can stretch to whatever go one level up.

The other thing is what does the next level offer. If you were still in heat exchangers then I’d say save but you get a big feature extra.

Use the quote form and see what the sponsors can offer here.

many thanks. sorry can you explain the quote form pls? I'm assuming I fill a form out with what I want and stores that are members might try to offer me best price? do I need to know exact model Im after?

[LeroyC]

The BES920 is great buying at $700ish. Will it last 10yrs? If you look after it there’s a good chance it will. Will it last 15? That’s more unlikely. Don’t count it out altogether, but realise that it is slightly lighter when it comes to build quality than the Lelit and it will give you problems if you don’t treat it with due care.
I think any of the Lelits represent very good value. From a value stand point I’d put them above any of the other ones you’ve mentioned. Do you need to spend $1500 to get the PL60? No, you don’t, but maybe you should. What I’ve learnt through my ‘home barista’ journey is that spending more and getting the best machine you can afford will definitely reduce the likelihood that you’ll want to upgrade soon. However it won’t eliminate it altogether, so if the entry level Lelit will work for you (and potentially make things a bit easier on the home front around the $$s spent) then it might be the way to go. It may mean you want to upgrade in a few years, but at least a Lelit will hold a reasonable amount of value, especially if you’ve looked after it properly. A Breville won’t do as well in this way.
So buying a machine that COULD last 15yrs is a good plan. Realising that you probably won’t keep it that long can’t hurt either. LOL.

[rusty888]

Couldn’t agree more. I was taught what one can you afford and go one level up from there. So if you think you can stretch to whatever go one level up.

The other thing is what does the next level offer. If you were still in heat exchangers then I’d say save but you get a big feature extra.

Use the quote form and see what the sponsors can offer here.

[crazyjoe]

I think you can discount the dual boiler. With those you hope it breaks in 22 months and then get a new one under warranty. It’s not worth it.

For long term others will know better in that price bracket but I would stretch for the dual boiler lelit as a milk drinker and entertaining.

Price is temporary but choice is forever.

Thanks, I totally agree that price is temporary. what difference will $500 make in 10 years time but there has to be a line. esp since my wife is not a coffee drinker.

[rusty888]

I think you can discount the dual boiler. With those you hope it breaks in 22 months and then get a new one under warranty. It’s not worth it.

For long term others will know better in that price bracket but I would stretch for the dual boiler lelit as a milk drinker and entertaining.

Price is temporary but choice is forever.

[crazyjoe]

HI all,

Not sure if this thread is still going but I thought it might be better to ask here than start a new one as its related.

I am after a new espresso machine under $1200. I have the Baratza sette 270W grinder that arrived yesterday and am currently using the Saeco Via Venezia machine, but the more im learning and reading the more I'm realizing that needs an upgrade too. I primarily will make 1 milk based drink per day (maybe 2 since they will taste better, but wife doesn't drink coffee which makes funding this harder) although occasionally this 1-2 cups increases due to guests but normally its just me. Might get into espresso shots though since quality will improve but who knows. I hope to keep this new machine for 10-15 years so I want it to be good enough to not NEED to be upgraded. I consider myself a novice. the more I learn the more I realise there is to learn. Im interested in learning though but still a novice at this stage.

Im currently looking seriously at the Lelit PL41TEMD ($989) which I like because of the PID (although I understand that temp surfing isnt the end of the world but thats primarily why I think I have discounted the Rancilio Silvia 2018 M V5). I was also looking at the Breville BES920 Dual Boiler Coffee Machine. This machine is very cheap now ($714) and is dual boiler and you can set brew time etc. I dont like the idea of it though compared to an Italian espresso brand. I think im swayed by the romance of it all but I cant deny the features and price (understand might not last as long and wont have the same resale but resale isnt really a big factor). The ECM Manufacture Casa V is interesting but advice from the store is that the Lelit is maybe better for $200 less.

I guess my question is subjective to a large extent but whats the "best" option for me (given above requirements?). Any retailers I should look at (Ideally Melb but interstate ok), any other brands or models? Would dual boiler be much better? Should I try and extend my budget to $1500? Lelit PL60 is dual boiler ($1699 or $1399 for new but dented). Lelit Victoria ($1469) also looks good and has timer for brewing which could save need for a scale or timer. The QUICK MILL SILVANO EVO ($1450) is also interesting with a shot timer built into the PID.

The lelit PL41TEMD (ideal price & probably front runner) seems to have a 250ml boiler and 57.5 tamper size rather than the 58mm I believe is standard. are these issues? I dont expect to get multiple tampers or spend $400 on one either. I think id just get the $75 lelit tamper and stick with it.

anyway thanks for reading (if i haven't rambled too much) and thanks for any advice or additional info to consider. cheers

[Chrisj1984]

Definately look on the coffee hardware sale section. High quality machines will last a really long time. I have bought 2 machines from here and they have been great. I would go for a heat exchange machine and these can often be found for the money you are looking to spend and likely afford a good grinder too. I bought a bezzera bz99 and a compak k3 for 1100 and the grinder was brand new. Happy shopping

[wattgn]

As someone also currently looking to upgrade around the same price-point as I have a slowly failing EM7000, the expenditure for me is mainly to (hopefully) invest in longevity. I'd be happy to continue using my current setup however I'm now out of Sunbeam's 2-year warranty period and this thing just isn't reliable - obviously not built to last. As an engineer I respect innovation and things with nice bells & whistles, however the bottom-line is also very important and a simple, reliable machine that will last and last has now become my main criteria following the "cheaper option" experience.

Yes. Check the equipment for sale here. You can do better than these shit quality consumer machines. Clever users make them work after they're broken and lucky users cheerfully use them without problems.

I think the proper machines are dead simple with few parts but well made and last for years and that is what you should aim for. As a bonus you will get your money back rather than throwing it in a pit. You may well even have a nice machine that looks great in your kitchen.

[CoffeeHack]

As someone also currently looking to upgrade around the same price-point as I have a slowly failing EM7000, the expenditure for me is mainly to (hopefully) invest in longevity. I'd be happy to continue using my current setup however I'm now out of Sunbeam's 2-year warranty period and this thing just isn't reliable - obviously not built to last. As an engineer I respect innovation and things with nice bells & whistles, however the bottom-line is also very important and a simple, reliable machine that will last and last has now become my main criteria following the "cheaper option" experience.

[Tassie_Devil]

Your situation wouldn't be uncommon and I can understand your frustration. The BES900 suffered from 3 or 4 common problems that were spotted by owners fairly early on in the piece and fixes worked out for them by a range of people. Some 'fixes' were actually recommended by Breville. They're all well documented in the Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url...4&share_type=t.

It sounds like you've fallen into the trap of relying on the 'authorised service agent' to carry out the work on your Breville. These places are invariably fairly average when it comes to service and tend to be appliance repair shops rather than coffee machine specialists. No service centre that gives a crap would hold a customer's machine for 6 months, that's disgraceful. While I'm glad you've found a machine that meets your requirements in the Delonghi, I think it'd be a shame to consign the Breville to the basement as it does do a few things better than the Delonghi. If you don't have a local service agent that can actually do what needs to be done I'd suggest you consider sending the BES900 interstate to someone that can sort it. CS member 'noidle22' would be able to help I'm sure as he's fixed plenty of these machines over the years. If he can't do it himself he might be able to recommend someone that can. In the grand scheme of things a bit of money spent now on shipping and repair could give you a machine that's actually worth something rather than a pretty looking dust collector in the basement.
I'm interested to know what filter you replaced when 'coffee was spilling out everywhere' yesterday?? To me it sounds like the group seal needs replacing rather than a filter. One of the common issues the BES900 suffered from was a poor fitting portafilter. This was fixed by replacing and/or modifying the group collar from memory and if this hasn't been done on your machine it might be all it needs to get working well again. Hope this is all of some help.

Thanks Leroy C, a sensible suggestion which I will follow up. I'm sort of getting browned off with the Breville but you are right, not much point in it gathering dust downstairs if all it needs is another seal, something which I should be able to replace as i have lots of tools here to help.

[LeroyC]

Fair comment.

This morning I replaced the filter as yesterday coffee was spilling everywhere out of the Breville. Sadly, no better this morning so the Breville goes down to the basement. The $300 repair was a waste of money,

So, we will see how long the "disposable" Delonghi lasts. If it has a short life I'll come back here for advice. At $1500 the BES900 has turned out to be a dud so I will not be buying Breville again. A pity, as at the time of its release it was getting high praise here.

Your situation wouldn't be uncommon and I can understand your frustration. The BES900 suffered from 3 or 4 common problems that were spotted by owners fairly early on in the piece and fixes worked out for them by a range of people. Some 'fixes' were actually recommended by Breville. They're all well documented in the Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url...4&share_type=t.

It sounds like you've fallen into the trap of relying on the 'authorised service agent' to carry out the work on your Breville. These places are invariably fairly average when it comes to service and tend to be appliance repair shops rather than coffee machine specialists. No service centre that gives a crap would hold a customer's machine for 6 months, that's disgraceful. While I'm glad you've found a machine that meets your requirements in the Delonghi, I think it'd be a shame to consign the Breville to the basement as it does do a few things better than the Delonghi. If you don't have a local service agent that can actually do what needs to be done I'd suggest you consider sending the BES900 interstate to someone that can sort it. CS member 'noidle22' would be able to help I'm sure as he's fixed plenty of these machines over the years. If he can't do it himself he might be able to recommend someone that can. In the grand scheme of things a bit of money spent now on shipping and repair could give you a machine that's actually worth something rather than a pretty looking dust collector in the basement.
I'm interested to know what filter you replaced when 'coffee was spilling out everywhere' yesterday?? To me it sounds like the group seal needs replacing rather than a filter. One of the common issues the BES900 suffered from was a poor fitting portafilter. This was fixed by replacing and/or modifying the group collar from memory and if this hasn't been done on your machine it might be all it needs to get working well again. Hope this is all of some help.