Best machine under $1200

[TC]

$1200 is about street price for a perfect Giotto premium or a Premium Plus in very good condition post service which you could probably keep for a few years and then sell for $1k... Given reputation and demand for them, that's where I'd be spending mine....

[Laj]

Spot on. A great operator can get decent coffee from a $1k setup.

To hear this from a sponsor whose livelihood depends on selling coffee making equipment is encouraging. It does you much credit Mr * ****. Kudos.

as far as hobbies go $5k isn't too bad...

Amen to that.

The other thing to factor in is the hassle of getting something repaired. I don't know about you, but if I experienced a failure like Mr Tassie D. did, and waited 6 months for a repair, I wouldn't be very impressed.

[Tassie_Devil]

And this is the crux of the matter. The Brevilles and DeLonghis of the world are designed with planned obsolence in mind. When it breaks it's meant to be chucked on the scrap heap so you go out and buy another unit. That's also why they don't have good resale value. 6 months to be repaired? The internals of the NS Oscar II are simple enough that I could repair it myself.

This is the thing, one machine is designed to last while the other is designed to be thrown away. Proof being you ended up buying two units. I'd rather pay a bit more and buy once than go for the cheaper option and end up having to buy a replacement. In the long run, you'll end up spending more on multiple 'cheap' appliances.

Fair comment.

This morning I replaced the filter as yesterday coffee was spilling everywhere out of the Breville. Sadly, no better this morning so the Breville goes down to the basement. The $300 repair was a waste of money,

So, we will see how long the "disposable" Delonghi lasts. If it has a short life I'll come back here for advice. At $1500 the BES900 has turned out to be a dud so I will not be buying Breville again. A pity, as at the time of its release it was getting high praise here.

[JumpingBeanz]

Our Breville was out of action being repaired (took over 6 months!!!) but is finally back and making coffee again. The Delonghi was purchased as a temporary fill in unit.

And this is the crux of the matter. The Brevilles and DeLonghis of the world are designed with planned obsolence in mind. When it breaks it's meant to be chucked on the scrap heap so you go out and buy another unit. That's also why they don't have good resale value. 6 months to be repaired? The internals of the NS Oscar II are simple enough that I could repair it myself.

This is the thing, one machine is designed to last while the other is designed to be thrown away. Proof being you ended up buying two units. I'd rather pay a bit more and buy once than go for the cheaper option and end up having to buy a replacement. In the long run, you'll end up spending more on multiple 'cheap' appliances.

[Tassie_Devil]

Spot on. A great operator can get decent coffee from a $1k setup. It's the hobby/toy/love/perfection factors that drive people to $5k+ And yes, as far as hobbies go $5k isn't too bad...

LOL, I guess it boils down to how important any particular "hobby" is to an individual. To me, coffee making is not really a hobby so I'm not prepared to spend big money on it. But fine sounding audio is an important hobby for me and I've spent far too much on that (and we are talking 6 figures here) yet I'm sure few would classify it as a "good" investment and worth spending much on.

So, bottom line on our header "best machine under $1200" means different things to different people and like so many things in life "best" for one is not necessarily best for others. Viva la difference. It would be a dull world if we all liked the same things and had the same values.

[Tassie_Devil]

It is old news that you can make great espresso with modest equipment if you know what you are doing and know how and knowledge is King.

Mind you coffee equipment although it can run to 5k for a complete and expensive setup, it is a far cry from what people spend on motor vehicles, for instance where 5k is peanuts.

Room in the kitchen is a consideration and some people just don't have the room so a very small and quite cheap grinder and maker is all they want and need.

Others like me don't mind spending and getting a plumbed in work of art that will last for decades and can be used to serve coffee for dinner parties if needed. Good equipment has good resale so for the most part you could get 70% of the what you paid in 5 years time. If you keep it for 20 or 30 years and live that long so much the better.

I paid $800 for a 9 year old Bezzera BZ40P 11 years ago and sold it for $500 last week.

Coffee equipment second hand is a great buy as the technology is simple and if you buy a quality machine, you can use it for years and sell it for what you paid for it. In the meantime you get a lovely machine.

And that philosophy applies to many objects that depreciate from new with cars a good example of this too.

Similarly, many are happy with a car that gets them reliably from A to B where others (and I'm guilty here too) take pride in a well made vehicle that is quiet, handles well and a pleasure to drive.

[wattgn]

And guess what, the coffee really does taste the same from the Breville as from the DeLonghi!!! As I commented elsewhere, my take is the ultimate tasAs I started off saying, some of us, including me, have purchased coffee makers with gte depends on the original bean and how well is is ground, not on the coffee maker. Yes, we all get kudos from owning a finely engineered and well presented unit but, not trying to offend people here (although will probably succeed), more dollars spent on a coffee maker does NOT, IMHO, ensure a better tasting result. There might be features which make the coffee making ritual more subjectively pleasurable, but the final result, the coffee, will be the same.

It is old news that you can make great espresso with modest equipment if you know what you are doing and know how and knowledge is King.

Mind you coffee equipment although it can run to 5k for a complete and expensive setup, it is a far cry from what people spend on motor vehicles, for instance where 5k is peanuts.

Room in the kitchen is a consideration and some people just don't have the room so a very small and quite cheap grinder and maker is all they want and need.

Others like me don't mind spending and getting a plumbed in work of art that will last for decades and can be used to serve coffee for dinner parties if needed. Good equipment has good resale so for the most part you could get 70% of the what you paid in 5 years time. If you keep it for 20 or 30 years and live that long so much the better.

I paid $800 for a 9 year old Bezzera BZ40P 11 years ago and sold it for $500 last week.

Coffee equipment second hand is a great buy as the technology is simple and if you buy a quality machine, you can use it for years and sell it for what you paid for it. In the meantime you get a lovely machine.

[Tassie_Devil]

Do some of us buy bigger machines than we really need?

$1200 was the same price point I had when I purchased my machine. After loads of research I picked up a Nuova Simonelli Oscar 2. At this price point I would have to say the NS Oscar 2 is the best machine on the market right now.

Nice looking machine but I wonder if some of us (not necessarily you JumpingBeanz) get a bit carried away and purchase a bigger, and more expensive coffee maker than we really need. This has been rammed home to me lately when comparing our Breville BES900 to a DeLonghi EC680. Our Breville was out of action being repaired (took over 6 months!!!) but is finally back and making coffee again. The Delonghi was purchased as a temporary fill in unit.

And guess what, the coffee really does taste the same from the Breville as from the DeLonghi!!! As I commented elsewhere, my take is the ultimate taste depends on the original bean and how well is is ground, not on the coffee maker. Yes, we all get kudos from owning a finely engineered and well presented unit but, not trying to offend people here (although will probably succeed), more dollars spent on a coffee maker does NOT, IMHO, ensure a better tasting result. There might be features which make the coffee making ritual more subjectively pleasurable, but the final result, the coffee, will be the same.

As I started off saying, some of us, including me, have purchased coffee makers with greater capacity than we really need or use. The double boiler Breville BAS 900 here would be great for a large family or small office where, left on all day, it would supply coffee on demand. A small Delonghi EC680 would be hopeless in that situation because of its limited capacity BUT for my wife and I, who usually only have a cup in the morning and only rarely some other time during the day, the Breville is overkill but the Delonghi suits us perfectly. It is quick to heat up and the smaller plastic (I hear some someone "yuk" at that) water container is easy to remove and refill.

So yes, horses for courses, and those who consume coffee throughout the day can justify a bigger machine. But, in my opinion, that is the only reason to buy one.

I looked at selling our Breville, now virtually reconditioned, but the price of used coffee makers is so low I'm not sure I'll go ahead. In the meantime I'll use up all the tank of water in the Breville but then plan to retire it and revert back to the much smaller (less bench space) DeLonghi. For our purposes that DeLonghi is the "best machine under $1200".

[JumpingBeanz]

$1200 was the same price point I had when I purchased my machine. After loads of research I picked up a Nuova Simonelli Oscar 2. At this price point I would have to say the NS Oscar 2 is the best machine on the market right now.

[3rutu5]

Here, Here! i think asking what the best machine is for the coin will produce similar results to going to bathurst and asking what is better holden or ford.......which would be neither lol

It really comes down to personal preference, i love my machine but the aussie dollar is poor against the other currencies and you will have an impossible time finding one so i wouldn't recommend it, but im biased because i wanted a similar machine with no pump and with minimal parts so it wouldnt (touch wood) break. I looked at both the silvia and really like the look of the lelits, but it went against what i wanted. Not a fan of sunbeam or breville, but i have heard some pretty good things from people who do have them.

i did make the mistake of rushing out and buying a grinder. Although the breville smart grinder was on special and i got it cheaper again because i got a kenwood chef as well, i really wish i spent the extra couple of hundred and got a better compact or other. Dont get me wrong, it does the job, just spend most my time with how much better it could be

good luck with what ever choice you make, i'm sure you will love the ride and investment.

Hallelujah!! Finally a few logical posts. It's like people don't even read the original post on threads sometimes, they just respond to the most recent post or continually reply based on their personal agenda.

It's pretty simple really - a Silvia is a great machine and has frequently been the entry point to home espresso for coffee geeks. I've never owned one, but I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone that says they're super user friendly. A Lelit is possibly a bit more forgiving so possibly a better choice, but still lacks the 'set and forget' feature of something like a Breville BES920.
Personally I don't like appliance machines. The planned obsolescence and poor build quality irks me, but I've owned a couple of little Sunbeams and have been able to get great coffee from them. In fact I bought a used EM4820 that I cleaned, serviced and slightly modified before giving to my brother and his fiancé with an EM0440 grinder as I knew it would suit them due to its ease of use. And guess what? They love it!! It won't last forever, but it's perfect for them now and when it dies they'll probably be comfortable moving to something a bit more 'proper'.
So of all the options available I actually still agree with Barry that the Breville BES920 + Smart Grinder fits the OP's requirements the best. And as much as they can have issues there's also plenty of them out there that have been going well for 6 years or so with no problems. As with any espresso machine keeping it clean and treating it with care will go a long way.
I'm looking forward to hearing what the OP decides to buy (if we haven't already scared him away forever).

[Logga]

[QUOTE=LeroyC;589589]I bought this to do up-

/QUOTE]

Way to go, good luck with the do up.

[LeroyC]

What are you planning on getting next?

I bought this to do up-

[Logga]

Yeah mine is the electronic version of the one seen in that HB thread. To be honest I'm not sure how the group is heated, I'll have to check it out as I'm planning on selling it soon.
Otherwise it's the same with the vertical boiler at the back. Mine has had some mods and upgrades - wrapped boiler, OPV set to 10bar, braided hoses fitted to replace the nylon/Teflon ones, dampening foam in appropriate places and an upgraded steam wand.

What are you planning on getting next?

[LeroyC]

Is the group head electrically heated on that? I was looking at it. http://www.home-barista.com/espresso...ect-t7388.html

The boiler is at the back and it isn't an E61 head. It goes to show how many hundreds of good models there are out there and you don't necessarily have to pay a lot when buying second hand.

Yeah mine is the electronic version of the one seen in that HB thread. To be honest I'm not sure how the group is heated, I'll have to check it out as I'm planning on selling it soon.
Otherwise it's the same with the vertical boiler at the back. Mine has had some mods and upgrades - wrapped boiler, OPV set to 10bar, braided hoses fitted to replace the nylon/Teflon ones, dampening foam in appropriate places and an upgraded steam wand.

[wattgn]

Ooh, and I forgot about the La Pavoni Cappuccino I modified a couple of years ago. Another handy little machine, but like all the other the other budget machines it was slower to use and clean etc.
I've just picked up my Brugnetti on Thursday after it being away for 3 weeks. Man it is a joy to use and is a real luxury after using my Bialetti and Gaggia Classic for that time.

Is the group head electrically heated on that? I was looking at it. http://www.home-barista.com/espresso...ect-t7388.html

The boiler is at the back and it isn't an E61 head. It goes to show how many hundreds of good models there are out there and you don't necessarily have to pay a lot when buying second hand.