Best machine under $1200

[l0u0k0e]

Sorted...Problem is which one to use?

• Behmor
• Aillio
• Proaster Sample roaster
• Has Garanti

Popcorn machine, cheap and easy.

And then when hooked, simply work your way down the list..

[chokkidog]

Sorted...Problem is which one to use?

• Behmor
• Aillio
• Proaster Sample roaster
• Has Garanti

Popcorn machine, cheap and easy.

And then when hooked, simply work your way down the list..

When the above list of roasters is already lined up in your shed a popper seems a rather curious choice! ;-D

[ST]

My own fascination with coffee started with a Sunbeam, so you might be standing on the edge of the same slippery slope

That was my starting point too. Was intending to upgrade when the SB broke but here I am still waiting 6 years later :P

[wattgn]

That was my starting point too. Was intending to upgrade when the SB broke but here I am still waiting 6 years later :P

I know someone who knows someone who can make it have a bad accident...

[Tassie_Devil]

Mmmm. Interesting thread.

However, in the light of my experience (ongoing) with our $1500+ Breville BES900, that looks as if its life is only 3 years due to planned obsolescence (parts no longer available), I think paying 4 figure sums for a coffee machine is a waste of dollars. Some months ago our BES900 was supposed to be fixed so I paid the over $300 repair cost only to find it did not work at all so back it went and has remained unrepaired. There is discussion on all this in the other thread so I'll say no more on that topic here.

As posted before, I gave up waiting for the repair and purchased a Dehlonghi EC680 for about the same cost of the BES900 "repair".

Yes, there is a coffee making ritual associated with this machine but it is really no different to that with the Breville (said he, trying to remember that experience in the long ago past) and the coffee using freshly ground from the Breville grinder (agree it is essential).

So I say, forget about resale value, and the important corollary to that is NEVER buy a used one as they all have a limited shelf life with heat, water and associated seals etc involved. OK, some brands might last longer than our Breville BES900, but I'm sceptical that ANY machine over $500 is a good buy. I suspect there is a strong placebo effect here in that the coffee appears to taste better from a more expensive machine. I wonder if any double blind tests have been done on this!

Apologies if I'm stirring the pot and being cynical but this site is well named Coffee Snobs because I do feel there is a lot of snobbishness about coffee machines, just as there is about many consumer products.

That said, if a person is happy with their expensive or inexpensive coffee maker then end of story. We all have different tastes and aspirations and that is a good thing. It would be a very boring world if we all thought the same way and agreed on everything!!

[wattgn]

I bought a Bezzera BZ40P in 2005 for $800. It was made in 1996. I did some work on it initially and spent maybe $80. I have spend since then practically nothing except for a few seals. I recently replaced it with a Wega Mini Nova Classic but I had to put in $210 rotary pump before sale. I will likely get $600 for it. It will still go for another 20 years. The machine still looks new and is for sale if you are in Perth!

My Rocky was bought at the same time for $450. I haven't spent a bean on it and it is still going strong. I will probably get $250 for it.

Both these machines will still be running on someone's bench in 10 maybe 20 years time.

My total spend was $880 $450 + $100 + $210 less sale price $600 + $250.

It cost me therefore $790 for 11 years of ownership. In that time I had some of the finest machines you can buy which looked great on my bench and did some amazing coffee.

You guys seriously think serious coffee people are snobs with equipment?

[LeroyC]

I bought a Bezzera BZ40P in 2005 for $800. It was made in 1996. I did some work on it initially and spent maybe $80. I have spend since then practically nothing except for a few seals. I recently replaced it with a Wega Mini Nova Classic but I had to put in $210 rotary pump before sale. I will likely get $600 for it. It will still go for another 20 years. The machine still looks new and is for sale if you are in Perth!

My Rocky was bought at the same time for $450. I haven't spent a bean on it and it is still going strong. I will probably get $250 for it.

Both these machines will still be running on someone's bench in 10 maybe 20 years time.

My total spend was $880 $450 + $100 + $210 less sale price $600 + $250.

It cost me therefore $790 for 11 years of ownership. In that time I had some of the finest machines you can buy which looked great on my bench and did some amazing coffee.

You guys seriously think serious coffee people are snobs with equipment?

Spot on. I've had similar experiences.

[Tassie_Devil]

You guys seriously think serious coffee people are snobs with equipment?

LOL, nothing personal, but I do think SOME people are, but maybe not many who post here because, like you, most are more knowledgeable.

But your post does make me think I should start pulling these things apart myself. I just replaced the battery in our iPhone so am conscious of saving dollars to do repairs myself (Apple wanted over $200 to do the battery replacement).

However not everyone is as skillful as you obviously are and my basic point still holds. Expense does not always correlate with quality and there are good functional coffee makers out there for under $500 and our Dehlonghi EC680, so far, appears to be one of them. But of course my opinion could be different in 3 years time.

[kbilleter]

...
there are good functional coffee makers out there for under $500 and our Dehlonghi EC680, so far, appears to be one of them. But of course my opinion could be different in 3 years time.

Depends heavily on your use case I'd say. I'm guessing it would struggle in higher volume situations (or even banging out two double-shot lattés quickly) but if that's not a requirement and you're happy with the output that's great.

[trentski]

I bought a 2800 dollar machine 7 years and it has cost me very little since. Its still worth over half the purchase price. Thats much better economics than a 300 dollar machine every year.

The whole user experience and results are leagues ahead of the 300 dollar machine as well.

[Yelta]

I bought a 2800 dollar machine 7 years and it has cost me very little since. Its still worth over half the purchase price. Thats much better economics than a 300 dollar machine every year.

The whole user experience and results are leagues ahead of the 300 dollar machine as well.

Very similar experience Trentski.

Bought a Bezzera machine in Oct 2009, paid $2850 for it.

Recently had a vac valve replaced and general health check, total cost $90 42.

Other than this have only replaced group head seals every 12 months or so, a couple of shower screens and descaling chemicals every six months.

The machine runs as well as the day I bought it.

[Gratulin]

Best machine under $1200

Same here. Rancilia Silvia purchased in 2005. Not a thing went wrong with it and only upgraded a couple of weeks ago because I saw the Lelit Mara and HAD TO HAVE IT !!! I've kept the Rocky grinder purchased at the same time.

The Silvia would be good for another 10 years I reckon.

[Yelta]

Same here. Rancilia Silvia purchased in 2005. Not a thing went wrong with it and only upgraded a couple of weeks ago because I saw the Lelit Mara and HAD TO HAVE IT !!! I've kept the Rocky grinder purchased at the same time.

The Silvia would be good for another 10 years I reckon.

Silvia's certainly were a very reliable little machine, I owned one for 9 trouble free years.

[Tassie_Devil]

I bought a 2800 dollar machine 7 years and it has cost me very little since. Its still worth over half the purchase price. Thats much better economics than a 300 dollar machine every year.

The whole user experience and results are leagues ahead of the 300 dollar machine as well.

That is a good track record but, and please believe I really am curious and not trolling, how is the user experience leagues ahead of a 300 dollar machine? To my simple old 80YO mind the functions are very similar for all machines: grind up the beans, press it into the filter holder, insert in machine, turn it on and hey presto coffee gets pumped out. Seems to me the resultant coffee taste depends on the bean/grinder quality rather than the machine and the ritual just described.

Note I'm not trying to rubbish your post or your machine but I am genuinely curious to understand how the whole user experience is leagues ahead.

[wattgn]

The company that makes the product is important. Breville and Sunbeam aren't committed to 20 year plus lifespans for products and having parts available for decades, they simply don't think that way.

The Italian companies that produce the commercial and prosumer machines do have an anticipated lifespan of decades for their products. They also generally keep the products very simple and robust so that they're made to last. Finally they're mostly hand made which makes them expensive but also rebuildable. The machines are made to be stripped and reassembled using human hands.

Machines like the Silvia are incredibly simple single boiler machines. It is dead easy to replace any part in them without any particular expertise.

You will notice also that stainless steel while providing bling also lasts incredibly well even with daily coffee acids and oils on them.

I look at the consumer coffee machines in the shops and I see nice machines but mass produced, not made to be rebuilt and using materials that are really not made to go the distance. They are also sometimes quite complex. Good luck if they go wrong out of warranty. You have some work to do, first to get the parts and the second to get into the machine and fix it.

I personally like an HX machine with a single boiler. Physical design is used to stabilize temperatures and do the work rather than fancy electronics prone to gong wrong. Espresso is simple and I think machines should be as simple as possible also. The fewer parts, the less electronics (preferably NONE), the better.