Best machine under $1200

[wattgn]

That is a good track record but, and please believe I really am curious and not trolling, how is the user experience leagues ahead of a 300 dollar machine? To my simple old 80YO mind the functions are very similar for all machines: grind up the beans, press it into the filter holder, insert in machine, turn it on and hey presto coffee gets pumped out. Seems to me the resultant coffee taste depends on the bean/grinder quality rather than the machine and the ritual just described.

Note I'm not trying to rubbish your post or your machine but I am genuinely curious to understand how the whole user experience is leagues ahead.

People buy art to hang on a wall and look at. I like art that can make coffee.

[LeroyC]

That is a good track record but, and please believe I really am curious and not trolling, how is the user experience leagues ahead of a 300 dollar machine? To my simple old 80YO mind the functions are very similar for all machines: grind up the beans, press it into the filter holder, insert in machine, turn it on and hey presto coffee gets pumped out. Seems to me the resultant coffee taste depends on the bean/grinder quality rather than the machine and the ritual just described.

Note I'm not trying to rubbish your post or your machine but I am genuinely curious to understand how the whole user experience is leagues ahead.

I'm probably a good person to reply to some of your queries as I've used a wide variety of machines. Machines I've owned:

- Gaggia Classic
- Sunbeam EM4820
- Sunbeam EM5600
- Faema Due D92/A1
- Brugnetti Simona Top DE
- Bialetti Il Caffe

Machines I've used but not owned:

- Rocket Giotto Evo V3
- La Cimbali Junior

I've been able to make very good coffee with all but one of these machines. The Sunbeam EM5600 has some nice user friendly features, but just didn't produce decent coffee no matter what I tried. I can honestly put my hand on my heart and say that the more expensive the machine, the better the coffee and the nicer it was to use. There's some caveats in there as obviously not every machine suits every situation, and there's a learning curve with all of them. Little things for example like steaming milk in about 10-15sec on the Rocket as opposed to 30-40sec on my Brugnetti, or closer to 5sec on the Faema. So it comes down to horses for courses and if you're happy with you Delonghi then stick with it. But if your needs ever changed then it might not be suitable in the future.
The other thing I'd say is - DO NOT attempt to service/repair your Breville. They are not made to be opened and serviced by anyone other than trained people. They are hard to pull apart and are full of fragile plastic and electronic components that aren't easily worked on.
Cheers.

[trentski]

That is a good track record but, and please believe I really am curious and not trolling, how is the user experience leagues ahead of a 300 dollar machine?.

Your $300 machine will most likely be single thermoblock. If you are lucky single boiler.
Mine is an hx with an e61 grouphead. This makes it incredibly temp stable and the inbuilt preinfusion with the e61 group makes it very forgiving of variations in grind and tamp. 58mm group for lots of coffee in the basket.
The hx means I can steam at the same time I pull shots. I can start the shot, start steaming the milk, walk away and come back 20 seconds later to switch everything off.
Then I can go again straight away, no waiting and no drop in quality.
No temp surfing, no waiting for thermoblock to heat up before I can steam, dry steam not wet steam. No switching boiler temps to get steam. Lever and knobs to start shot and control steam gives great tactile feedback. Easy to clean and backflush. Large water reservoir and drip tray.

You can make good even great coffee with a $300 machine. But, you have to work for it and results may vary. The $3000 machine makes it easy and consistently good even consistently great coffee.

[acid_rider]

A slight rant.

As the owner of Rancilio Sylvia since early 2010 (V3?) I don't understand why Rancilio has not made a new model Sylvia with a PID by now, in 2016?
The latest Sylvia (2016 V5?) is just the same as V4 with a couple of near useless new features, it seems.

Silvia would sell for under AUS$1000 with a PID provided by the factory, with warranty, and most likely be the best machine under $1200 in that form.
It has advantage of using standard size E61 parts with 58 mm filters and tampers unlike non-standard portafilter size machines like Lelit (I don't get it why Lelit does this but this is another story).

I temperature surf my Sylvia (with help of $20 thermometer) to get a PID-like result.
It works OK but is a mild pain in the butt.
Yes, I could buy a PID and have it installed by someone for a price but I want one designed and integrated by Rancilio themselves because it is more likely to last years and years.

Ok, my rant is over! 8^)

[readeral]

What's Rancilio's loss is Lelit's gain I'm afraid acid_rider.

[wattgn]

It is very Italian to design something simple and to keep it that way. I like that.

[Yelta]

That is a good track record but, and please believe I really am curious and not trolling, how is the user experience leagues ahead of a 300 dollar machine? To my simple old 80YO mind the functions are very similar for all machines: grind up the beans, press it into the filter holder, insert in machine, turn it on and hey presto coffee gets pumped out. Seems to me the resultant coffee taste depends on the bean/grinder quality rather than the machine and the ritual just described.

Note I'm not trying to rubbish your post or your machine but I am genuinely curious to understand how the whole user experience is leagues ahead.

Evening Tassie_Devil,

Better quality machines certainly are a joy to use compared to less expensive appliances, and, for the most part producing quality espresso becomes less of a challenge, of course whether or not the extra dollars are justified is pretty much dependent on the taste buds and outlook of the individual.

Bear in mind that the coffee thing is very much an all consuming hobby to many of us, and, like all hobbies people can become quite obsessive and spend ridiculous amounts of cash in their never ending quest for perfection, and of course, like nirvana an unattainable goal, nonetheless the quest must continue.

Of course we cant forget the skill or lack of, of the operator, a good home barista can produce decent espresso on most machines, whilst those lacking in skills using quality fresh beans will produce dish water on the most sophisticated equipment.

As others have commented, good espresso can be produced on cheaper machines.

[skidquinn]

A slight rant.

As the owner of Rancilio Sylvia since early 2010 (V3?) I don't understand why Rancilio has not made a new model Sylvia with a PID by now, in 2016?
The latest Sylvia (2016 V5?) is just the same as V4 with a couple of near useless new features, it seems.

Silvia would sell for under AUS$1000 with a PID provided by the factory, with warranty, and most likely be the best machine under $1200 in that form.
It has advantage of using standard size E61 parts with 58 mm filters and tampers unlike non-standard portafilter size machines like Lelit (I don't get it why Lelit does this but this is another story).

I temperature surf my Sylvia (with help of $20 thermometer) to get a PID-like result.
It works OK but is a mild pain in the butt.
Yes, I could buy a PID and have it installed by someone for a price but I want one designed and integrated by Rancilio themselves because it is more likely to last years and years.

Ok, my rant is over! 8^)

Haha I agree with this one 100%.

[LeroyC]

Ooh, and I forgot about the La Pavoni Cappuccino I modified a couple of years ago. Another handy little machine, but like all the other the other budget machines it was slower to use and clean etc.
I've just picked up my Brugnetti on Thursday after it being away for 3 weeks. Man it is a joy to use and is a real luxury after using my Bialetti and Gaggia Classic for that time.

[wattgn]

Ooh, and I forgot about the La Pavoni Cappuccino I modified a couple of years ago. Another handy little machine, but like all the other the other budget machines it was slower to use and clean etc.
I've just picked up my Brugnetti on Thursday after it being away for 3 weeks. Man it is a joy to use and is a real luxury after using my Bialetti and Gaggia Classic for that time.

Is the group head electrically heated on that? I was looking at it. http://www.home-barista.com/espresso...ect-t7388.html

The boiler is at the back and it isn't an E61 head. It goes to show how many hundreds of good models there are out there and you don't necessarily have to pay a lot when buying second hand.

[LeroyC]

Is the group head electrically heated on that? I was looking at it. http://www.home-barista.com/espresso...ect-t7388.html

The boiler is at the back and it isn't an E61 head. It goes to show how many hundreds of good models there are out there and you don't necessarily have to pay a lot when buying second hand.

Yeah mine is the electronic version of the one seen in that HB thread. To be honest I'm not sure how the group is heated, I'll have to check it out as I'm planning on selling it soon.
Otherwise it's the same with the vertical boiler at the back. Mine has had some mods and upgrades - wrapped boiler, OPV set to 10bar, braided hoses fitted to replace the nylon/Teflon ones, dampening foam in appropriate places and an upgraded steam wand.

[Logga]

Yeah mine is the electronic version of the one seen in that HB thread. To be honest I'm not sure how the group is heated, I'll have to check it out as I'm planning on selling it soon.
Otherwise it's the same with the vertical boiler at the back. Mine has had some mods and upgrades - wrapped boiler, OPV set to 10bar, braided hoses fitted to replace the nylon/Teflon ones, dampening foam in appropriate places and an upgraded steam wand.

What are you planning on getting next?

[LeroyC]

What are you planning on getting next?

I bought this to do up-

[Logga]

[QUOTE=LeroyC;589589]I bought this to do up-

/QUOTE]

Way to go, good luck with the do up.

[3rutu5]

Here, Here! i think asking what the best machine is for the coin will produce similar results to going to bathurst and asking what is better holden or ford.......which would be neither lol

It really comes down to personal preference, i love my machine but the aussie dollar is poor against the other currencies and you will have an impossible time finding one so i wouldn't recommend it, but im biased because i wanted a similar machine with no pump and with minimal parts so it wouldnt (touch wood) break. I looked at both the silvia and really like the look of the lelits, but it went against what i wanted. Not a fan of sunbeam or breville, but i have heard some pretty good things from people who do have them.

i did make the mistake of rushing out and buying a grinder. Although the breville smart grinder was on special and i got it cheaper again because i got a kenwood chef as well, i really wish i spent the extra couple of hundred and got a better compact or other. Dont get me wrong, it does the job, just spend most my time with how much better it could be

good luck with what ever choice you make, i'm sure you will love the ride and investment.

Hallelujah!! Finally a few logical posts. It's like people don't even read the original post on threads sometimes, they just respond to the most recent post or continually reply based on their personal agenda.

It's pretty simple really - a Silvia is a great machine and has frequently been the entry point to home espresso for coffee geeks. I've never owned one, but I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone that says they're super user friendly. A Lelit is possibly a bit more forgiving so possibly a better choice, but still lacks the 'set and forget' feature of something like a Breville BES920.
Personally I don't like appliance machines. The planned obsolescence and poor build quality irks me, but I've owned a couple of little Sunbeams and have been able to get great coffee from them. In fact I bought a used EM4820 that I cleaned, serviced and slightly modified before giving to my brother and his fiancé with an EM0440 grinder as I knew it would suit them due to its ease of use. And guess what? They love it!! It won't last forever, but it's perfect for them now and when it dies they'll probably be comfortable moving to something a bit more 'proper'.
So of all the options available I actually still agree with Barry that the Breville BES920 + Smart Grinder fits the OP's requirements the best. And as much as they can have issues there's also plenty of them out there that have been going well for 6 years or so with no problems. As with any espresso machine keeping it clean and treating it with care will go a long way.
I'm looking forward to hearing what the OP decides to buy (if we haven't already scared him away forever).