Best machine under $1200

[Vinitasse]

So what?

Stop trying to put words in peoples mouths that they never said. Your constant trolling is getting really old.


Java "Read my post exactly and explicitly as typed!" phile

My point was that I have absolute faith in Andy only ever selling quality products and that if he offers pre-ground coffee as a option then one may safely assume that his pre-ground coffee is as good as pre-ground coffee can be and that it should be possible to brew a drinkable cuppa from it. Sure... there can be no question that freshly ground, freshly roasted coffee is the absolute ideal and that it should yield far superior coffee to anything pre-ground but the fact remains that many coffee enthusiasts out there simply cannot afford both a fine machine and a fine grinder and have to make the best of an imperfect situation. As such, seeking out the finest pre-ground coffee may be the best option available. Lastly, going back quite a few years now but there was a stage in my life when I had to make do with a Sunbeam and decent quality pre-ground coffee and I was able to crank out drinkable coffee more often than not... at least it was better than the stuff available at most of my local cafes. In any event... no trolling here... was simply presenting the other side of the coin for those with limited budgets.

[Javaphile]

Beanbay sells pre-ground coffee for espresso

So what?

Stop trying to put words in peoples mouths that they never said. Your constant trolling is getting really old.


Java "Read my post exactly and explicitly as typed!" phile

[magnafunk]

Beanbay sells pre-ground coffee for espresso

With the caveat:

For quality, CoffeeSnobs strongly recommend buying as whole bean.

[Javaphile]

Rather than taking this thread off-topic I'll keep this brief.

Just as beans undergo chemical and physical changes during the roasting process they also undergo chemical and physical changes after roasting. (If they didn't they would never stale which would mean the beans would taste the same a thousand years after they were roasted as they did when they were removed from the roaster.) The most obvious changes are the out-gassing of CO₂, oxidation, and absorption of moisture. These changes require that the grind fineness be adjusted so as to maintain the optimum extraction pressure and time.

For more information on the hows' and whys' of roasted bean storage see the Roasted Bean Forum or use the Search/Advanced Search function located on the upper-right of every page.


Java "Now back to the threads' topic" phile

[Vinitasse]

What was unclear in my statement?


Java "Clear as a bell" phile

Beanbay sells pre-ground coffee for espresso

[Rorschach]

I'll add to this maybe going and doing a barista course. Made a massive difference to the way I make coffee, definitely worth the $200ish outlay

[MrFreddofrog]

.........if you do not have quality beans being freshly ground just prior to being brewed .....you won't get good espresso. Period.

Hey Java "Don't ignore the grinder!" phile

I'm sure the OP would benefit from understanding WHY this occurs.

I could give it a crack but given you have a few more thousand posts than I do I suspect you know more on the topic

[LeroyC]

Sorry, "ease of use" doesn't mean automatic.

I understand that there will be a learning curve involved, i just thought some machines might be slightly more user friendly than others, which doesnt sound like it is the case.

Would the Lelit Combi suit my/her requirements as it has an included grinder. I understand the disadvantage if/when wanting to upgrade in the future, given that any future upgrade will require a purchase of a new grinder.

I'm assuming the combined model would save on counter space?

Or, am i better off buying a separate grinder and espresso machine from the start, given that the machine will have to be cheaper to accommodate the grinder?

If you haven't already done so then watch this YouTube clip of the guys from Jetblack using the Lelit Combi. https://youtu.be/zMPQAVNXqvg It's a good clip to show how it works. It took over a minute to steam the milk, but it was a huge jug of milk as they were steaming enough for two lattes in one go. Most people drink double shot coffees these days so rather than splitting the shot like in this clip I would imagine you'd be extracting it straight into one cup then steaming a smaller amount of milk just for that one drink. Obviously it takes a bit longer overall to make two coffees, but I would imagine it'd only take 25-30sec to steam the milk for a single drink. It's a nice looking machine that performs well and I think you'd be quite happy with it.
A couple of caveats with a combi machine: obviously you've already read about the downside of having the two units combined when it comes to onselling and also if one of them breaks down. In my mind this is worst case scenario stuff. If it doesn't break down and you like it you'll hopefully be keeping it for many years. The other however is that I highly recommend you don't keep beans in the grinder hopper. The reason is that they are exposed to high temperatures from the coffee machine when it's hot which would spoil them quickly. So if you go for this machine then just put enough coffee in the hopper each time you use the machine for the drink(s) you're going to make.
Good luck with you search.

[saeco_user]

Sorry, "ease of use" doesn't mean automatic.

I understand that there will be a learning curve involved, i just thought some machines might be slightly more user friendly than others, which doesnt sound like it is the case.

Would the Lelit Combi suit my/her requirements as it has an included grinder. I understand the disadvantage if/when wanting to upgrade in the future, given that any future upgrade will require a purchase of a new grinder.

I'm assuming the combined model would save on counter space?

Or, am i better off buying a separate grinder and espresso machine from the start, given that the machine will have to be cheaper to accommodate the grinder?

Some machines definitely are easier to use when trying to achieve consistent results. Some single boilers without a PID may require "temperature surfing" to produce the best shot.
Some HX machine may require a cooling flush.

I don't have a HX machine, I have a PIDed single boiler. While I can get good results with it there is still some inconsistency, particularly when pulling multiple shots, some with milk and some without.
One of the main reasons, I believe, is due to the relatively small boiler (250ml) which would be very similar to the one in the Lelits (somebody please correct me if I am wrong).
I would argue that any new HX is likely to be more consistent, and they all have a much larger boiler.

I should probably add that my inconsistent results are only really noticeable when drinking espresso. With any milk based drinks the inconsistencies are pretty well masked.
If you drink mainly milk based drinks a HX or double boiler will make your life easier than any single boiler.

The Lelit Combi will definitely have a smaller footprint than separate machine and grinder, and if this is critical, is just about your only option.

I haven't used one but a NS Oscar 1 may be in your price range and many people seem happy with it.
Although you want to buy new, there is really not much risk in purchasing a second hand grinder, particularly if you do so through this forum and can inspect/test it before purchase.
Apart from possibly requiring new burrs not too much is likely to go wrong.

[saeco_user]

Are you suggesting that all pre-ground coffee for espresso is garbage?

No. But unless you can use it shortly after being ground (some would say within minutes) it will quickly oxidise and lose flavour.

[jymorgan]

Sorry, "ease of use" doesn't mean automatic.

I understand that there will be a learning curve involved, i just thought some machines might be slightly more user friendly than others, which doesnt sound like it is the case.

Would the Lelit Combi suit my/her requirements as it has an included grinder. I understand the disadvantage if/when wanting to upgrade in the future, given that any future upgrade will require a purchase of a new grinder.

I'm assuming the combined model would save on counter space?

Or, am i better off buying a separate grinder and espresso machine from the start, given that the machine will have to be cheaper to accommodate the grinder?

[LeroyC]

Please don't buy a Breville . These are throw away appliances.
Buy a Lelit, Rancilio or Gaggia for quality, working life and re-sale value.

He wants ease of use though Paul. All the machines you mentioned are simple, but probably take a bit more attention and have a slightly bigger learning curve. While I agree with your sentiment it might not be the best option in this situation. And as much as the appliance brands are built to fail at a certain point there's plenty of people that have had 10 good years from their Sunbeam EM6910 machines.

[flynnaus]

Any suggestions regarding my "ease of use" question?
Are any of the machines I mentioned easier to use for a novice than others?
Im assuming a more expensive machine doesn't always mean easier to use?
I want to purchase something that will produce good results but will still be fairly easy to her to use - will a PID model assist with this?

If by "ease of use" you mean pop, some coffee beans in the machine, push a button to make a coffee, you are talking about an automatic. You might be able to source one within your budget but
a) they tend not to make great coffee. With some machines, you can tweak the settings.
b) they tend to break down easily because of the greater number of moving parts.
c) the better quality auto machines cost $3K or more.

For espresso machines like the Lelt or Breville, your wife will have to learn how to dose, distribute and tamp the coffee then heat the milk properly. If that's not her, then she may be better sticking to the capsule machine. No, a PID will not make it easier. It just regulates the water temp of the boiler.
Can you take her to a shop that sells a range of equipment to get a demo and see if she would be keen to give espresso machines a try? Or would you be happy to become the home barista if your wife balks at the idea? You need to factor in a grinder with your purchase as pre-ground coffee loses it's freshness quickly.
Another option would be to buy the Behmor Brazen (~$250) plus a new grinder. That will be well within your budget, less fuss to use and can make up to a litre of coffee at a time. Don't skimp on the grinder. The Breville Smart grinder at a minimum.

[LeroyC]

The Breville package is currently on sale at The Good Guys for $1299 and Bing Lee for $1399. Harvey Norman is $1699 but I'm sure they'd price match if they're easier to get to for you.

[LeroyC]

Any suggestions regarding my "ease of use" question?
Are any of the machines I mentioned easier to use for a novice than others?
Im assuming a more expensive machine doesn't always mean easier to use?
I want to purchase something that will produce good results but will still be fairly easy to her to use - will a PID model assist with this?

Unless you specifically want a European machine or don't like the look of Breville stuff I'd seriously consider the Breville BES920 & Smart Grinder package. The downside is that it probably won't last 10 years with your level of daily use, which I'd call moderate. But it has the ability to set a whole heap of variables to your tastes such as preinfusion time and brew temp, but it's also easy to use in that once you have your settings dialed in your wife will be able to just push the double shot button on the grinder and the corresponding button on the machine for a double shot espresso.

If polished stainless, Italian made and decades of use are more important I'd put the Lelit at the top of the list. It's also fairly user friendly, just in a different sort of way.