Im going to replace my Breville DB as it has come to the stage where it is needing repairs more than it makes coffee so I think a Lelit will be my choice. I only make about 4 black coffees a day and rarely do milk, I like the look of the Mara but another model may be ok for me not sure, one thing though is can I use my VST 18 and 22 gm baskets in the Lelit machines? I have a K3 touch Grinder.
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Hi TonyM1,Originally posted by tonym1 View PostIm going to replace my Breville DB as it has come to the stage where it is needing repairs more than it makes coffee so I think a Lelit will be my choice. I only make about 4 black coffees a day and rarely do milk, I like the look of the Mara but another model may be ok for me not sure, one thing though is can I use my VST 18 and 22 gm baskets in the Lelit machines? I have a K3 touch Grinder.
Why not look at the VBM Domobar Jnr aswell?
If you’re a black coffee drinker then you’ll love having the vertical boiler for extra temp stability, much the same as the VBM (almost identical inside really) but I feel the VBM has a nicer styling, apart from being a proven model for many many years.
Otherwise take Mal’s advice and get up in the 'Pointy end’ category of the forum, I’m sure you’ll find plenty of input there, especially from our friendly site sponsors
edit: The VBM has a 1600 element if that helps
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Agree with Gun Barista if you want to keep it under 25cm, but if you're happy with similar foot print to the Breville Double Boiler, than any HX, e61 under 42cm will do, and may feature higher quality S/S, better design steam wand as well as some will have toggle switches. Naming a few: Isomac Tea (27cm width, cool touch steam wand, s/s switches, spacious), Di Bartoli Magica (30cm width, commercial ball joint steamer, tap levers, large cup warmer, finesse & attention to details, 4L tank, 50% trade in guarantee and few others). Love to tailor a short list for you if we get to know about you a little more: http://bit.ly/1mj6n0AOriginally posted by GunBarista View PostHi TonyM1,
Why not look at the VBM Domobar Jnr aswell?
If you’re a black coffee drinker then you’ll love having the vertical boiler for extra temp stability, much the same as the VBM (almost identical inside really) but I feel the VBM has a nicer styling, apart from being a proven model for many many years.
Ofra
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Tony, one thing that stood out for me was that you mainly make black coffees. That would suggest to me that you would only need a single boiler machine without HX. You are not going to use the steam wand anyway, why pay for it? Saves you half the money I reckon.
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I wouldn't so quickly jump to this conclusions, Enigk.Originally posted by Enigk View PostTony, one thing that stood out for me was that you mainly make black coffees. That would suggest to me that you would only need a single boiler machine without HX. You are not going to use the steam wand anyway, why pay for it? Saves you half the money I reckon.
Many things are factored in every person's decision to upgrade. Most are subject to that person's culture that is different from anyone else's.
If the OP is valuing longevity, durability, safety, easiness of use and speed (yes, even with black coffee) equally to his views of affordability than SB may not necessarily be the best way to go, particularly if he doesn't want to upgrade again within the next 5 years.
Why?
Here are top 3 reasons:
1. Safety: HX has safety features SB doesn't have like low water cut off and automatic boiler refilling which is much more user friendly as well supports failure, prevents frequent technician visits and reduces the total repair bill for the life of the machine
2. Longevity: HX internal parts are overall more commercial than SB, which allows for better longevity (providing user's appropriate care). For example: SB work with thermostats which are less commercially oriented than the HX pressures switches. We see frequent SB visiting our repair centre due to thermostats failing.
Quality e61 HX tend to have a more robust design, higher metal quality, better attention to details. SB are only semi Prosumer and vary with their commercial orientation. Hence it's never only HX vs SB, comparison must rely on x SB model vs x HX model in relation to the user's culture
3. Practicality: with e61 large boiler SB (like the Isomac Zaffiro), your wait time from start till the group head comes up to temperature is closer to that of an HX (average 20-25, the bigger boiler the longer the wait). With an HX you can use a timer for fast heat up time. You can't do that with SB as you risk burning your element. That may not be a big deal if the OP isn't rushed in the morning or happy to modify their morning routine to accommodate heat up time.
Ofra
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while I don't use the steam very often it is nice to have it when someone calls in and likes a milk coffee. I currently use the hot water a lot on my Breville for making Americanos which is the Mrs and myself preferred morning drink (2 each every morning). I have been looking at the Lelit mara, Profitec 500 and Vibiemme domo jr. There are not many places that sell these in the Maitland/Newcastle area so I have to have a trip to Sydney when time permits
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Yes, I see your points Ofra and *****. I maintain I made a fair point for consideration though. I was really looking at it from a pure cost perspective. What is immediately required vs how much money is immediately saved. From the other end of the scale, you could always get a better machine at greater expense. E.g money no object, one could recommend a GS3 for making long blacks too.
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I am looking athe PL62 and VBM domo jnr myselfOriginally posted by tonym1 View Postwhile I don't use the steam very often it is nice to have it when someone calls in and likes a milk coffee. I currently use the hot water a lot on my Breville for making Americanos which is the Mrs and myself preferred morning drink (2 each every morning). I have been looking at the Lelit mara, Profitec 500 and Vibiemme domo jr. There are not many places that sell these in the Maitland/Newcastle area so I have to have a trip to Sydney when time permits
, in addition to the Expobar Office Leva and Isomac Tea Due. Good luck!
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I understand that EnigkOriginally posted by Enigk View PostI was really looking at it from a pure cost perspective. What is immediately required vs how much money is immediately saved. .
But do people buy quality coffee machine because they want to save money or because they want to get the BEST value for THEIR money?
This VALUE is different for every person. As most budgets are set accordingly to that value, our experience shows that if the perceived value changes, so will the budget.
Most people don't know what they don't know. So if they haven't done much research, if they were never exposed to what it takes to make great coffee at home, if they haven't realized their ability to replicate their favorite barista coffee or if their palate hasn't been challenged nor were they interested In challenging it, then they are likely to be quite happy with a non Prosumer machine that will cater for their current needs. In this case, under $1K can easily support THEIR value for money.
Even then, if money was the only objective they would never buy anything. But they do also look at eastetics, branding, size, service, automation, color etc. May not be making the best coffee but surely fits their kitchen tiles or at least it's an improvement on what was there before so they are certainly in a better place.
Friction occurs when (sometimes subconsciously) we are unhappy with the coffee we're getting, we wonder why the barista can make such an amazing drink while we never achieve the same results and we begin to question. But when we find out that going to the next level requires x amount of $, we either settle for what we have (which won't make us happy) or we get to a point when pain is so bad (or we start putting ourselves first) that we begin to explore, and understand that under $1K can no longer deliver the best value for us as our needs have changed, and we finally take action.
Few more years down the track, that may happen again, the exact same process. And when we upgrade again and learn new insights on coffee, some would tell you that if they knew then what they know now, they'll be buying an HX straight away. Others just needed to go through the learning curve slow.
And that's absolutely fine.
But if we reduce the opportunity in embarking on such an exciting coffee journey at home with so much exploration, new flavors, and the new confidence emerging as we upscale our skills, if we reduce it to what is 'cost effective' only, we really don't give ourself the chance to recognize the true value coffee appreciation has to offer us.
My suggestion is always to understand your own 'culture' first, get clear on what's YOUR value (we help with that) and then set your budget accordingly.
You'll be saving money in the long haul on costly repair bills and possibly on unnecessary upgrades.
Ofra
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Ofra I think we have the same overall thinking since I don't disagree with any of your points. What we did not align on before was individual buyer context. I was perhaps too quick to assume some aspects when I made that comment.
* ****, great to know stock will be in.
While we are on the subject of the Mara, would you happen to know if one could swap out the steam wand assembly for a lever operated one, like the ones on the Bezzera?
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I have the same machine and am contemplating the same upgrade (Breville DB to Lelit Mara) so really interested in what decision you make. My difference is I drink milk and will probably also upgrade my grinder.
I'm on the central coast which means a 90 minute drive to Sydney to look at any new machine in the flesh to help make the decision.
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