Looking at a Lelit mara

[ElShauno]

If i had a dollar for everytime that was written on this forum i would be paying someone to type this for me.

Ha! Well there you go. Glad to see it's common knowledge.

I guess it's hard to improve on the basic principles of espresso [emoji3]

[trentski]

I took an unconventional upgrade path and discovered an interesting fact: the grinder upgrade is where the biggest gains are made.

If i had a dollar for everytime that was written on this forum i would be paying someone to type this for me.

[ElShauno]

I took an unconventional upgrade path and discovered an interesting fact: the grinder upgrade is where the biggest gains are made.

As soon as I moved to a Macap M4D from a Breville grinder, my Breville machine was producing exceptional quality espresso.

With a K3 Touch you're fine and could in fact save money on the machine and buy second hand.

I did this last month and now own an HX machine in excellent nick and working perfectly. So easy to use, too, mainly because of the convenience of 'walk up shots' in the morning vs the Ol' thermoblock on my Breville, which struggled to move from coffee to steam in a timely manner!

While there are indeed improvements in the cup (machine can take finer grind leading to better extraction) they're smaller gains than the leap of difference in the grinder change.

I therefore imagine the difference in the cup between these HX machines is even smaller - barely noticeable

[GunBarista]

I haven't used a Lelit before, but I'm definitely not a fan of Isomacs...

If we're talking under $2.5k and under a foot wide then the VBM junior is the standout..

.. I won't give an answer as to why I would choose the VBM in this circumstance because I don't want to step on anyone's toes here, but just ask an honest sponsor, or a technician if you have access to consult with one.

[Magic_Matt]

Nice one Mal funny ...
There's good reason that I always recommend that people see machines in the metal before they buy. If anyone sees a Mara beside a Tea and chooses the Tea I'll eat my hat.

Geez Pauly, you must go through a few hats eh? [emoji6]

[2muchcoffeeman]

For mine, "better" = a combination of internal build and component quality, layout, finish, performance and bang for buck and my experience is that in this price bracket, no machine has it comprehensively over any of the the others. There are aspects I dislike (and I'm being diplomatic here) about each of them. What better does not equal though is the best sales pitch nor necessarily the one someone thinks is pretty. Try having a candid discussion with a tech...

Bottom line is that that the "right" choice will depend on the the requirements of the purchaser who should get out and sample their major contenders and then weigh up some pros and cons. This will allow the individual to choose based on what they need.

[Dimal]

Not very definitive unfortunately Paul...

Mal.

[DiBort]

I put it with the Expobar Leva as an entry level HX. The Mara is a long way ahead for build quality

I did not play with a Mara, Paul, so you could be right, but I'm curious as to what 'long way ahead for build quality' actually means?

[DiBort]

If we're keeping it under $2.5k and under 30cm width I'd be considering the Isomac Tea which I personally find prettier, has a better design of the cool-to-touch wands, comes with shiny S/S construction, raised feet for easy cleaning AND a PID model for same price as the PL62. Yes, smaller boiler, but having same capacity of heating element as the Mara, I doubt on a max 4 milky coffee in a go scenario you'd be able to tell the difference. VBM Junior might be a better fit if you need the power, tight on space and love the shiny metal finish.

[GunBarista]

I would probably go for the "on front adjustable PID" if I go with the Mara, I have been thinking about the Profitec 500 and Vibi Domobar Jr also and will have to go to Sydney to buy ( when I go on holidays in Feb) as I don't know of anywhere in my area that sells these machines. I think they will all make an equally good coffee. I have a Compac K3 touch grinder and will stay with that for now.

I'm a huge fan of the Profitec 500. I personally think it's the best Vib pump machine out there. I don't value a PID on a single boiler HX so much. Although is a good idea to have temp control, but unless you're a black coffee/single origin connoisseur looking to extract your espresso at optimum temp - because it's a single boiler - any PID adjustments will effect steam as well...
Having had experience with the Rocket Premium Plus PID; extracting at 119 is great for some coffees, but when it came to doing the milk (at 119), I did find it lacking with such low pressure steam.
In saying that, boosting it from 119 to 124 for that powerful steam only took about a minute to reach pressure. So I guess you could compromise....

As you can tell by my language, I'm not so convinced with PID's on a single boiler HX, unless you're a black coffee drinker.

But if you're putting these 3 in the same sentence (Lelit, VBM, Profitec) I think there's not question that the Profitec is the stand out.

...according to me :P

[Enigk]

As an ex Mara user (albeit botched it with an imported model from Italy) I'd consider the serviceability of the Mara. Have you ever seen what it looks like inside?

What do you mean by that? What is different/wrong with the Italian version?

[tonym1]

I would probably go for the "on front adjustable PID" if I go with the Mara, I have been thinking about the Profitec 500 and Vibi Domobar Jr also and will have to go to Sydney to buy ( when I go on holidays in Feb) as I don't know of anywhere in my area that sells these machines. I think they will all make an equally good coffee. I have a Compac K3 touch grinder and will stay with that for now.

[tony644]

I have the same machine and am contemplating the same upgrade (Breville DB to Lelit Mara) so really interested in what decision you make. My difference is I drink milk and will probably also upgrade my grinder.

I'm on the central coast which means a 90 minute drive to Sydney to look at any new machine in the flesh to help make the decision.

[tonym1]

what would be the updates on the new machine?

[nickm]

As an ex Mara user (albeit botched it with an imported model from Italy) I'd consider the serviceability of the Mara. Have you ever seen what it looks like inside?