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  • Rocket Appartamento/Bezzera BZ10/Bezzera Magica

    Any recommendation if price are really close for the 3?
    I am open for E61 grouphead or Bezzera grouphead.
    I'm a latte and occasional espresso drinker. I prefer lightly city roast beans with more flavor of the beans itself.
    I am using Eureka Mignon grinder.
    I have upgraded from Krups XP4020 to Gaggia Classic and find the body of my coffee to be much better.

    Wonder which one is the best machine for me in terms of quality of the product/quality of the espresso/easiness to maintain and fix.

    Thank you

  • #2
    Differences in flavor will be very subtle If you compare the BZ group to the E61. Since you tend towards lighter roasts the preinfusion feature of the E61 might give it a slight edge over the BZ10. OTOH the BZ warms up faster and is far more maintenance friendly IMO. Were I in your situation now I might lean towards the Appartemento as well, but you won't be disapointed with either.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by K_Bean_Coffee
      Hi there.
      Of those 3 I would say Rocket Appartmento any day of the week. Another to consider is the Lelit Mara.
      Good hunting Paul
      Paul, mind telling me what's the negatives of Bezzera?
      It's related to design or the quality of the espresso?

      Or just Appartmento is just too good.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by 850t View Post
        Paul, mind telling me what's the negatives of Bezzera?
        It's related to design or the quality of the espresso?

        Or just Appartmento is just too good.
        You won't find many unhappy Bezzera owners.

        Comment


        • #5
          Agree with Yelta...

          All are great machines and I would seriously doubt that you could tell the difference between the quality of coffee produced by any of them.
          Build quality for all of them is equally very high too.

          You really need to visit a Specialist Retailer such as one of our Site Sponsors, where you can get a demo of all three. May have to visit more than one premises to do that, but that's half the fun anyway...

          Mal.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by 850t View Post
            Any recommendation if price are really close for the 3?
            I am open for E61 grouphead or Bezzera grouphead.
            I'm a latte and occasional espresso drinker. I prefer lightly city roast beans with more flavor of the beans itself.
            I am using Eureka Mignon grinder.
            I have upgraded from Krups XP4020 to Gaggia Classic and find the body of my coffee to be much better.

            Wonder which one is the best machine for me in terms of quality of the product/quality of the espresso/easiness to maintain and fix.

            Thank you
            Both Rocket and Bezzera are at the top end of quality and finish.

            The BZ10 has a faster heat up time with the inbuilt cartridge heaters in the group whilst the Appartmento has the attraction of the original E61 group head.

            The PID option on the BZ10 takes it up a level and is worth considering.

            Cheers

            Antony

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Casa Espresso View Post
              Both Rocket and Bezzera are at the top end of quality and finish.

              The BZ10 has a faster heat up time with the inbuilt cartridge heaters in the group whilst the Appartmento has the attraction of the original E61 group head.

              The PID option on the BZ10 takes it up a level and is worth considering.

              Cheers

              Antony
              BZ10 has PID option? Or self mod?

              Comment


              • #8
                No, the BZ07, which is otherwise technically the same as the BZ10, comes with a PID and volumetric control option. Plus its hot water wand and group head are laid out differently on the front panel.

                Comment


                • #9
                  On a Heat Exchange machine I would not get too hung up on the PID feature. The temp on the dial is not necessarily the temp of the water that comes out of your group head. It is merely the boiler temp offset to what is expected to be the temp at the group head as a reference. You can obviously play with the setting, but there is still a small cooling flush involved to get reproducable temperatures.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by degaulle View Post
                    No, the BZ07, which is otherwise technically the same as the BZ10, comes with a PID and volumetric control option. Plus its hot water wand and group head are laid out differently on the front panel.
                    Hi degaulle,

                    I was referring to the PID option that we fit to the BZ10. We also fit the same system to the Bezzera Strega. We develop this system with Rick aka "The Coffee Machinest".

                    We fit these to new machines and offer full factory warranty and are recognised by the Bezzera distributor in Australia.

                    The cartridge group head heating system on the Strega and BZ10 work extremely well with this modification. There is a separate thread under the Strega heading that discusses this

                    cheers

                    Antony

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by degaulle View Post
                      On a Heat Exchange machine I would not get too hung up on the PID feature. The temp on the dial is not necessarily the temp of the water that comes out of your group head. It is merely the boiler temp offset to what is expected to be the temp at the group head as a reference. You can obviously play with the setting, but there is still a small cooling flush involved to get reproducable temperatures.
                      Agreed. On an HX machine a PID is more of an "I want option" rather then offering a notable difference in performance or control of the group head temperature.

                      However on the BZ10 (and the Bezzera Strega), Bezzera have added heating element cartridges into the group head as well as having a traditional HX heating system. This secondary heating system not only means the machine gets up to temperature faster then a standard HX machine it also allows real time and efficient temperature changes at the group head using the PID

                      cheers

                      Antony

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I have no qualms with my BZ10, i've got a little write up somewhere on here.
                        http://coffeesnobs.com.au/brewing-eq...pressions.html
                        There is a bit of back and forth about pressures, but i think Bezzera works nicely.

                        Get an IMS screen and a good basket and you are happy, heck its not too shabby with the stock baskets

                        What sold me was the footprint and the fast heat up time for my morning coffee, and the price was a little cheaper than the Rocket when I bought mine.

                        As mentioned by Antony, the PID is something I might consider down the way as a nice little retrofit option - its pretty darn good without it, but its on my "nice to have list"

                        Happily making brews below.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Rocket Appartamento/Bezzera BZ10/Bezzera Magica

                          Hi 850t,

                          Note that the Magica is sold under the Di Bartoli brand in Australia.

                          What it means is that it's technically a Bezzera but it has undergone a Di Bartoli R&D, and is proudly promoted and distributed exclusively by Di Bartoli past 4 years, becoming the highest selling model of our entire range, experiencing low breakdown statistic and is making many CS members happy each morning (check matt3wh review here:
                          http://coffeesnobs.com.au/brewing-eq...-3-months.html)

                          I'm in love with it myself, and have it proudly nesting on my kitchen bench pulling 4-6 hot chocolates for my son's mates on weekends and easily making my coffee geeky friends happy on Xmas day..[emoji4]

                          It will also offer you 50% trade in deal where you can get 50% off what you paid today for your Magica as a discount against another Bezzera if you feel like upgrading within first 5 years.

                          Now, I don't say it's better than the Appartamento, but I do say it presents the best overall value for its price bracket as it's retailed for $2,750 and we offer it in a heavy discounted price to you because we can.

                          The Appartamneto is an incredible machine too, albeit young, with smaller boiler, smaller tank, only one gauge, low feet (hard to clean), it has knobs taps vs lever taps in the Magica and its looks may not be everyone's cuppa.

                          I'd be able to make better recommendation if you'd let me know more about you here: http://bit.ly/DBquest

                          As for the BZ10, everyone knows we love Bezzeras, they are reliable, parts are available all year around, and they're easy to fix. But BZ10 employing a proprietary designed Bezzera head wouldn't be my first choice if I had the other 2 models as an option. Having all 3 machines side by side on our bench and making coffee from it, gives us the insight into what may behave better with coffee and despite good built / small footprint / reliability / good finish and the Bezzera name, this specific head design is finicky, challenges consistency as its fairly shallow on clearance (think Silvia head), and the extra booster that allows fast heating will also result in high temp fluctuation for brewing. Not something a non e61 user can gauge if they haven't had the experience to draw the comparison.

                          So I'll go E61 any day of the year. Welcome to read more about an E61 in our buyer's guide here http://bit.ly/DBbuyersguide

                          Hope it helps,
                          Ofra

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Casa Espresso View Post
                            Hi degaulle,

                            I was referring to the PID option that we fit to the BZ10. We also fit the same system to the Bezzera Strega. We develop this system with Rick aka "The Coffee Machinest".

                            We fit these to new machines and offer full factory warranty and are recognised by the Bezzera distributor in Australia.

                            The cartridge group head heating system on the Strega and BZ10 work extremely well with this modification. There is a separate thread under the Strega heading that discusses this

                            cheers

                            Antony
                            Hi Anthony,
                            I didn't realise this was a mod commercially available. If the PID is linked to the group head heater, that sounds like an interesting mod.

                            I never did temperature readings on my BZ10 machine, but always assumed that the stock thermostat that controls the GH is set at or just below 90 degr. C for when the machine is idle. If you run a flush prior to pulling a shot, the GH is stabilized at the temp you want when you run the extraction.

                            I did a brief search on "Strega PID mod", but not narrowed down enough probably. What I am wondering about is: If you PID the GH heater so it holds a steady 93 degr C while the machine is idle, won't the brew temperature overshoot when you draw a flush or run the extraction right away, because the Heat Exchanger still holds superheated water? Just curious.

                            Cheers
                            Bert

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by degaulle View Post
                              Hi Anthony,
                              I didn't realise this was a mod commercially available. If the PID is linked to the group head heater, that sounds like an interesting mod.

                              I never did temperature readings on my BZ10 machine, but always assumed that the stock thermostat that controls the GH is set at or just below 90 degr. C for when the machine is idle. If you run a flush prior to pulling a shot, the GH is stabilized at the temp you want when you run the extraction.

                              I did a brief search on "Strega PID mod", but not narrowed down enough probably. What I am wondering about is: If you PID the GH heater so it holds a steady 93 degr C while the machine is idle, won't the brew temperature overshoot when you draw a flush or run the extraction right away, because the Heat Exchanger still holds superheated water? Just curious.

                              Cheers
                              Bert
                              Hi Bert,

                              Here is the link to the Strega mod and corresponding graphs. Note that the HX thermostat has been wound back slightly.

                              The same system is used on the BZ10.

                              Hopefully this explains things a bit better

                              cheers

                              Antony

                              http://coffeesnobs.com.au/brewing-eq...ra-strega.html

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