Originally posted by coffe4me2
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Lelit PL60PLUST vs Sage (Breville) Dual Boiler
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Hi coffe4me2, really appreciate the sentiment. I've decided to go down the route anyway as the Lelit is practically unknown in the UK, and the Breville is well received here. There's a 2 year warranty and it's with John Lewis who is very good with repairs/replacements so we should be good.
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Make sure you come back and tell us about the great coffee you are making 😎
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So, I've actually settled for the BES920 for a few of reasons:
1. Any fixes and warranty work needs to go back to base far from me (I can probably find someone in London that can service it, but haven't had any luck so far)
2. The BES920 is better marketed here so resale is likely easier
3. The BES920 seems fairly user friendly so would be useful for the occasional staying guests to use (and the wife!)
4. I like the design of the heating elements and the super quick start up. The ease of playing around with some settings to change a coffee's profile... not sure how much I'd use this but something I wouldn't mind looking into occasionally.
Thanks again all for your advise. Really appreciated all the inputs.
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If price wise they are about the same and neither will be kept more than 5 years. I'd personally get the Lelit. In Oz the Lelit costs $800 more than the BES920.
I'd agree the long heat up time on e61 is a deal breaker for many people, and timer is really not a good solution. it might work well for some people and not for many others. and not to mention the complexity of the E61 (seals, springs, valves etc.)
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A useful extra feature of the Breville DB is the easily adjustable pre-infusion. Just saying.Originally posted by flattie View PostI get it that if I wanted an E61 it'd be a longer waiting time hence I've decided against it for now. All I was saying that if it was possible for a quicker warm up without all the fuss, people would be jumping all over it.
My wants were fairly simple, and I appreciate your write up.
With regards to Bella Barista, unfortunately nothing they stock is within my budget and as such have looked else where.
Right now I'm heavily leaning towards the Lelit but haven't yet discounted the Sage due to its extra features. Price wise they are about the same, I suppose it's just longevity and resell value I need to consider, as I don't envision keeping either machine for 5+ years.
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I get it that if I wanted an E61 it'd be a longer waiting time hence I've decided against it for now. All I was saying that if it was possible for a quicker warm up without all the fuss, people would be jumping all over it.Originally posted by LeroyC View PostUltimately there's not a lot in it and while I wouldn't count it out altogether I'd make it a much lower priority than your other 'wants' when making a final decision.
Hope this all helps, make sure you let us know what you decide.
My wants were fairly simple, and I appreciate your write up.
With regards to Bella Barista, unfortunately nothing they stock is within my budget and as such have looked else where.
Right now I'm heavily leaning towards the Lelit but haven't yet discounted the Sage due to its extra features. Price wise they are about the same, I suppose it's just longevity and resell value I need to consider, as I don't envision keeping either machine for 5+ years.
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Of course. I know it's a bit long winded, but you'll see in my post that I mention that the Breville has some great features and capabilities. Letting the machine do the work for you is merely one of these many functions.Originally posted by Tupinamba View PostHey, you make it sound like the Breville DB is something like a super auto! Any sensible user would at least time and watch the extraction (timing is actually made easy by a built in clock). A lot of people would weigh also. I don't trust the one shot and two shot volumetric buttons at all.
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Hey, you make it sound like the Breville DB is something like a super auto! Any sensible user would at least time and watch the extraction (timing is actually made easy by a built in clock). A lot of people would weigh also. I don't trust the one shot and two shot volumetric buttons at all.Originally posted by LeroyC View Post[...] the Sage is a bit more 'push button' and let the machine do the work, whereas the Lelit embodies the simplicity of flicking a brew switch and watching/timing/weighing your extraction. The Lelit could have a bigger learning curve, but you'll actually learn more along the way. [...]
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Well, no. The very nature of an e61 group head means that it won't ever be fast to heat up. But don't kid yourself either, a good quality dual boiler with a semi-commercial group head will still take a similar amount of time to reach optimal temp stability as an e61 HX machine. This is simply because it takes time to heat the mass of metal contained in the group head and portafilter, even the stainless steel in the Sage/Breville.Originally posted by flattie View PostI respectfully disagree.
The timer is a workaround that people have to live with because of the machines they choose; Don't tell me if an E61 could warm up faster people wouldn't want that.
I don't really understand why people make such a fuss about warm up times. I'm a morning coffee person and I simply get up, go straight to the kitchen and turn my machine on then do a couple of other things, maybe have some breakfast and before you know it 20min has passed. In fact it's often more like 30-40min. I know everyone has different routines and morning schedules, but I think that unless you want to be up and out the door with a coffee in hand in 5-10min then warm up times shouldn't be a problem.
I've never owned a Breville DB, but I do like what it can do and certainly wouldn't count out buying one at some point. By all accounts it's capabilities, shot quality as well as its set of features are much more like a $20k La Marzocco or similar than other appliance brands. It's biggest down side is it's low build quality. They have a greater failure rate than prosumer machines and even at their best would only get 10-12 years before they're beyond repair. And that's the crux of it really. Comparing the Lelit and the Sage is sort of like comparing apples with oranges. They are both easy to use, but in different ways as the Sage is a bit more 'push button' and let the machine do the work, whereas the Lelit embodies the simplicity of flicking a brew switch and watching/timing/weighing your extraction. The Lelit could have a bigger learning curve, but you'll actually learn more along the way.
The other big difference is that you might get a good Sage that if well looked after will last 10-12 years, but I'd say that'd be about it. Whereas the Lelit is perpetually serviceable and repairable and has every chance of lasting 20, 30 or more years. Then again you might get a dodgy Sage that goes in for repair, spends 2-3 months there for the service centre to turn around and say it can't be repaired so they'll replace it. You end up with a refurbished machine that has the same problem 6 months later. This has happened to more than a few Breville owners here in Australia.
With all that said I really think your best bet is to get in to a specialist retailer like Bella Barista and get the low down on all the DB and HX machines in your price range.
A final point on warm up times. Things can be sped up by flushing water through the group head, but this isn't the best way to do it no matter what machine you owned. If I owned the following machines the minimum warm up times I'd allow for would be:
Sage DB - 10-15min
Lelit DB - 15min
Lelit, Expobar, Isomac or similar HX - 20min
Ultimately there's not a lot in it and while I wouldn't count it out altogether I'd make it a much lower priority than your other 'wants' when making a final decision.
Hope this all helps, make sure you let us know what you decide.
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That's opinion. I was trying to represent the facts in an unbiased way so the OP can make their own opinions. Looks like they have decided e61 isnt for them and thats fine with me.Originally posted by blend52 View PostWarm up times are a complete distraction and completely irrelavent in the real world.
It should not be a part of any decision making process.
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Still would pick the lelit over the breville
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I respectfully disagree.Originally posted by blend52 View PostWarm up times are a complete distraction and completely irrelavent in the real world.
It should not be a part of any decision making process.
There are pleanty of $10 timers , or even other gadgets to allow you to remotely control the machine from your smart phone if you feel it necessary.
The timer is a workaround that people have to live with because of the machines they choose; Don't tell me if an E61 could warm up faster people wouldn't want that.
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Warm up times are a complete distraction and completely irrelavent in the real world.
It should not be a part of any decision making process.
There are pleanty of $10 timers , or even other gadgets to allow you to remotely control the machine from your smart phone if you feel it necessary.
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Yeah I figured that after I read up a bit more. For now I don't think the E61 is the go for me so sticking with the two choices.Originally posted by trentski View PostAn e61 takes 20 to 30 minutes to warm up regardless of single boiler, hx or double boiler.
Hx with e61 is no less temp stable than a double boiler, but often cheaper and less complex..
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Right, but neither the Lelit nor the Breville have e61 groupheads... that may be an advantage in a home environment where fast warm up times are a plus. On the other side the e61 does look cool.Originally posted by trentski View PostAn e61 takes 20 to 30 minutes to warm up regardless of single boiler, hx or double boiler.
Hx with e61 is no less temp stable than a double boiler, but often cheaper and less complex.
I have a rocket giotto premium plus and its a walk up and pour a shot machine, most hx in australia are the same but the machines are often specified to our market and the UK dealers may not be at the same standard as the coffeesnob sponsors, although i am sure there are some good ones.
Make sure you arent "educated" from US forums when looking at espresso machines. The 110v machines seem to behave quite differently from the 220v world.
The lelit is built using standard espresso machine parts. If something fails in 5 years time there will be parts available. The same wont be said of the breville.
The breville makes good coffee but it is complicated in build and difficult to repair.
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