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Have prosumer machines up to $1.5k better build quality than Breville/Sunbeams?

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  • rawill
    replied
    Originally posted by BLW View Post
    Yep, looks almost like you've got a coffee machine to have something to fix

    From your reply it seems that you didn't run into many electronical problems.
    100% correct, only the thermal fuse.

    However, I have a Renault Laguna, ask me about that, it is one of the best but most troublesome cars i have ever owned, and I have owned over 40!
    My Saabs have given no issues, and I have 4 of them, have owned 7 in all.

    So it is not only coffee machines I tinker with, my road cars and my racing car keep me amused!

    Leave a comment:


  • Dodgy-Account-CoffeeMan2
    replied
    I remember a saying "buy one and buy well." It was in the context of tools eg, Bosch v Chinese no name but its a good one for coffee gear as well. I can't imagine ever going back to a Sunbeam now with all that plastic and sh$@ steam

    Leave a comment:


  • BLW
    replied
    Originally posted by rawill View Post
    Well yes and no. Yes I do do my own repairs, so eliminate the labout cost.

    Steam thermoblock was used, but new! if you understand me. NZ$40.00
    Bought from the local repair shop when I asked them to diagnose what was wrong with my steam thermoblocK.
    It was totally blocked, knowing what I know now, I should have tried to clear it.
    Bought the magnetic water level sensor online from a place in Aust.
    Bought the collar and various group head seals from the local repair shop, who source them from Sunbeam.
    Collar NZ$75.00

    New collar screws/bolts, local bolt supplier $5.00, not torx, cap screws, all fine.
    The old ones were seized in, and sheared off.
    Bought a spare set for another 6910 I am about to pull apart.

    But you see I like tinkering around with all kinds of stuff.
    Yep, looks almost like you've got a coffee machine to have something to fix

    From your reply it seems that you didn't run into many electronical problems. My EM7000 started to dispense water through the group head instead of the water spout, which doesn't make sense how that could happen. Descaled, backwashed with machine cleaner; no difference.

    Identifying the problem is the first issue I would have with a DIY approach. A leaking group head seal or steam wand - I can replace that. A thermoblack though where you need to solder bits together? Go straight and pay the $90 ph.

    It adds up quickly though, especially if you have to send it to someone out of town/state too. A friend of mine tried to get her Jura fixed and most commercial machine repairers close by refused to do it as it's too much fiddeling around with all the pieces. Had to drop it off 400ks away and added some holiday ontop in the region. You wouldn't want to do that very often.

    My hope is that prosumer machines like the BZ10 can be easliy fixed locally as they seem to be fairly straight forward build - similar to a commercial machine. maybe some parts look like I can do myself if there's some walktrhough on the net for a similar machine.

    Fingers crossed, I won't have to worry about that for a long time, but it is something that I considered too when I made my purchase.

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  • rawill
    replied
    Originally posted by BLW View Post
    I myself would probably break more of the plastic parts in a Sunbeam when trying to fix it and would have to hand it over to a workshop in the end. It's quite expensive that way.
    Haha, you remind me of the local garage owner where I work sometimes to help him out.
    He says, Charge out rates are:
    Normally $90.00 ph
    If you have tried to fix it and failed $105.00 ph
    If you have tried to fix it and broken it $125.00 ph

    Leave a comment:


  • rawill
    replied
    Well yes and no. Yes I do do my own repairs, so eliminate the labout cost.

    Steam thermoblock was used, but new! if you understand me. NZ$40.00
    Bought from the local repair shop when I asked them to diagnose what was wrong with my steam thermoblocK.
    It was totally blocked, knowing what I know now, I should have tried to clear it.
    Bought the magnetic water level sensor online from a place in Aust.
    Bought the collar and various group head seals from the local repair shop, who source them from Sunbeam.
    Collar NZ$75.00

    New collar screws/bolts, local bolt supplier $5.00, not torx, cap screws, all fine.
    The old ones were seized in, and sheared off.
    Bought a spare set for another 6910 I am about to pull apart.

    But you see I like tinkering around with all kinds of stuff.

    Leave a comment:


  • BLW
    replied
    Originally posted by rawill View Post
    Sure right about that!
    But my experience of a 6910,is exactly the opposite, as I have often said.
    Over 10,000 shots, on a machine built in late 2007.
    Spend has been minimal, 2 thermal fuses, 1 magnetic water level sensor, a steam thermoblock at about 7000 shots, it had never been descaled by the previous owner that I got it from at that point.

    And I have just replaced the collar.
    So about a $200.00 spend for me, on the last 3000 shots.
    Not bad I reckon, I am hoping my new to me 7000 will last as long with the same or less maintenance.
    It is near new, hardly used, and I paid $205.00 NZ.
    If you've got the background of repairing those machines yourself and know where to get the spare parts from cheaply (I'm not sure how easy Sunbeam sends out parts to private owners), you got a good way to enjoy coffee without spending a lot indeed.

    I myself would probably break more of the plastic parts in a Sunbeam when trying to fix it and would have to hand it over to a workshop in the end. It's quite expensive that way.
    There are lots of schemes out there for the Bezzera and the solid build might help me to do some maintenance myself once the warranty has passed.

    Leave a comment:


  • rawill
    replied
    Originally posted by BLW View Post
    I ended up buying a new Bezzera BZ10 (AUD1770). I was ready to spend the price of 2 new EM7100s at the best price I found (2x $680, H/N & JM buy them for $600, so it won't get much better without some store wide bonus discount codes).

    It took me quite some time to decide to spend that much money. On the one hand, my EM7000 lasted only 3 years and if I hadn't gone for an extended warranty, that would have been a lot of money for really good coffee for a short time.
    Sure right about that!
    But my experience of a 6910,is exactly the opposite, as I have often said.
    Over 10,000 shots, on a machine built in late 2007.
    Spend has been minimal, 2 thermal fuses, 1 magnetic water level sensor, a steam thermoblock at about 7000 shots, it had never been descaled by the previous owner that I got it from at that point.

    And I have just replaced the collar.
    So about a $200.00 spend for me, on the last 3000 shots.
    Not bad I reckon, I am hoping my new to me 7000 will last as long with the same or less maintenance.
    It is near new, hardly used, and I paid $205.00 NZ.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dimal
    replied
    The Group Temperature on the BZ-10 is adjustable I believe.
    If so, give it a try at the lowest temperature available and then creep up from there to just this side of bitterness.

    Another thing you can try and to give you a starting point, start with a dose weight that the basket is nominated to contain; 16g for example.
    Then, adjust the grind size such that you choke the machine. Once this is accomplished, gradually coarsen the grind until such time as you achieve the requisite volume in the cup and the taste meets with your approval. Practice doing this until it becomes almost automatic and afterwards, if you want to, start playing around with the dose/grind to see how this effects the outcome in the cup.

    It's all about experimenting and changing only one variable at a time until you're happy with the end result...

    Mal.

    Leave a comment:


  • BLW
    replied
    Originally posted by Dimal View Post
    I'd suggest discussing this with the vendor from whom you purchased the equipment...

    Mal.
    I did with the importer (was looking at getting a different/spare steam tip from them). They said I should stop reading coffee forums and enjoy what I can make (the pressure stats are as they should be btw).

    With experience, it'll all fall into place. Reading about what can cause bitterness besides what I tried points towards a high brew head temp - No clue how to measure that at all easily and I'm not sure if I even get flash boiling at the head (steam rises when I let water run out of the head, but boiling water looks different).

    There's no retailer for that sort of machine anywhere close by - so I had to order online. Taste is also almost impossible to explain to someone over the phone/online if they can't taste it for themselves. "Bitterness" to me might be something else to a coffee expert.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dimal
    replied
    Originally posted by BLW View Post
    For some reason I can't get my coffee to taste the same or better and always get some strong bitter flavours (heated brew head too hot? Tank pressure is at 1-1.2 bar where it should be). I adjusted the grind size form reasonable coarse to finest (SmartGrinder+), adjusted coffee amounts, tamped at different strength, ... I guess I'll figure it out soon.
    I'd suggest discussing this with the vendor from whom you purchased the equipment...

    Mal.

    Leave a comment:


  • BLW
    replied
    Originally posted by rawill View Post
    My first search for one of these came up at NZ $2248.00. I would need very very good coffee to upgrade from an EM 6910/7000.
    I ended up buying a new Bezzera BZ10 (AUD1770). I was ready to spend the price of 2 new EM7100s at the best price I found (2x $680, H/N & JM buy them for $600, so it won't get much better without some store wide bonus discount codes).

    It took me quite some time to decide to spend that much money. On the one hand, my EM7000 lasted only 3 years and if I hadn't gone for an extended warranty, that would have been a lot of money for really good coffee for a short time. The BZ10 hopefully outlasts the EM7000 by miles. However, it seems that you have to get it serviced for simple things like descaling - apparently not as for HX machines compared to the ease of the EM7000 where you just have to mix some descale powder into the water tank, flush, wait and flush...

    I also find the EM7000 a bit easier to handle. First, it doesn't get as hot as the stainless steel machines. Second, you can adjust the brew head heat. For some reason I can't get my coffee to taste the same or better and always get some strong bitter flavours (heated brew head too hot? Tank pressure is at 1-1.2 bar where it should be). I adjusted the grind size form reasonable coarse to finest (SmartGrinder+), adjusted coffee amounts, tamped at different strength, ... I guess I'll figure it out soon.

    Nevertheless, I'm very happy with my purchase and I love to experiment and understand the ins and outs of my new (stunningly beautiful) toy, especially if I'll have it for a very long time.

    Leave a comment:


  • rawill
    replied
    My first search for one of these came up at NZ $2248.00. I would need very very good coffee to upgrade from an EM 6910/7000.

    Leave a comment:


  • applor
    replied
    I went from a Sunbeam 6910 up to a second hand 2008 HX VBM super which are usually 1100-1300 and I haven't looked back. As for warm up time, we use a timer. Problem solved.
    My wife was reluctant to touch such a shiny/expensive machine but now she happily does her own excellent coffees and loves it. It's easy to use.

    Leave a comment:


  • BLW
    replied
    Originally posted by ozscott View Post
    Bernard how handy are you and are you willing to so some low cost repair and tuning of a second hand machine?

    Cheers
    That's a good question. I have done some easy fixes around the house (change light fittings, tabs, build a swing set etc.), but have no experience with repairing an espresso machine or electrical equipment. I would probably not be able to identify the fault either. However, if it's a simple undo a few screws and wires (with good instructions), I should be fine. When it comes to complex circuits or addings something like a PID, I would have to bring it to my local workshop (which will cost a fair bit I guess).

    So, 2nd hand machines while costing less might end up dearer in the end. Therefore, I have no clue how to identify a 2nd hand bargain, unless it comes from a workshop with some 3 months warranty.

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  • ozscott
    replied
    Bernard how handy are you and are you willing to so some low cost repair and tuning of a second hand machine?

    Cheers

    Leave a comment:

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