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Time for some Gaggia Classic upgrades. PID, steam wand, grinder, other??

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  • manchu
    replied
    Just updating this thread as I've been tinkering with my classic. I haven't upgraded much really, but I've had a few issues over the last year or so, hence the tinkering.

    First issue was low water flow. I pulled the machine apart found some crud lodged in the solenoid valve. A nice free fix and was good to get me familiar with the machine internals.

    Next issue was a leaking steam valve, which was a simple fix to install a new valve. A$70 or so.

    Last week I had another flow problem, but this time it was only low when pulling a shot which led me to suspect an issue with the pressure so i finally got around to fitting the pressure gauge to my portafilter and measured a lowly 3-4 bar. I figured there's only a few possible causes so I started the process of elimination:

    - a leak in the system. I couldn't see any large/obvious leaks when viewing process with cover removed so not that
    - issue with OPV. no water passed the OPV during the process so no that either
    - issue with pump. definitely the cause.

    Googling returned a lot of 'how to replace pump' instructions but none on pump repair so I figured it's not serviceable, but I decided to rip it out and have a closer look. I'm glad I did because I found the issue, fixed it for free per the following steps:

    1) Remove pump from machine and remove the elbow fitting from the pump outlet (per instructions for replacing pump).
    2) Remove all remnants of thread sealant from inside the plastic outlet of the pump.
    3) Unscrew the small plastic ring piece inside the pump outlet which retains a spring/rubber plug piece. (I used a small 2 prong fork fitting from a screwdriver set, like a flat head screwdriver with a slot in the middle).
    3) Inspect plug and internals for stuff that shouldn't be there, and clean up. (I found a piece of black plastic, which I assume had somehow made its way into the water tank and then sucked up by the pump).
    4) Re-install the spring/plug and retaining ring. Screw it all the way in, not too tight. (I imagine the ring is easy to break if you're rough so be careful)
    5) Re-assemble the pump into machine. Enjoy.


    My machine is now running great again and actually better than before as i made the OPV adjustment at the same time.

    Over the last 2yrs i've also improved my process/technique a lot so am getting better results without any costly machine mods.

    Leave a comment:


  • deegee
    replied
    [QUOTE=timblaktu;637333 Just mining for others' experiences with various PIDs on the Gaggia Classic. Not yet convinced the PID would be much of an improvement on a machine with such a tiny boiler, but then again, I haven't even used the machine before so what do I know? .
    Cheers, Tim[/QUOTE]

    G'day Tim, I rebuilt a couple of Gaggia Classics a few years ago and I bought a PID and an SSR for one of them, but I never fitted them, mainly because I realized that it was not going to help much, because the boiler is so small.

    The deciding factor was a post here on CS by sponsor Rick Bond, ( The Coffee Machinist ) pointing out that the Classic's main problem is intra-shot temperature drop which could be offset by flicking the steam switch on/off for a few seconds just before pulling the shot.

    https://coffeesnobs.com.au/brewing-e...p-surfing.html

    So I fitted a temperature sensor, connected to a digital meter instead of the PID. I would flick the steam switch on and when the meter showed about 120° C , flick it off, and pull the shot. This might seem very hot, but it was reading the external temp on the top of the boiler - not the water inside. The standard brew thermostat, which reads boiler casing temperature, operates at 107°, and overshoots by several degrees each time it cycles.

    I also used it to help with steaming milk - If I waited for the light to come on before steaming, I was relying on the residual heat in the boiler, which drops quite quickly, and sometimes ran low on steam at the end. But if I started steaming at about 130°, the elements would stay on, the temp would slowly increase, and the steam thermostat would not turn the elements off until I was nearly finished.

    Leave a comment:


  • timblaktu
    replied
    Another update for a new Father-to-be (of a Gaggia Classic and a new baby human!)

    Originally posted by manchu View Post
    A quick update: Group head seal replaced (I went for silicone) and silva wand fitted. The seal obviously improves things as it was leaking quite badly. The wand is so much better you have to wonder why Gaggia put that plastic piece of @#$^ on the machines.

    I have some paternity leave coming up any day now so I'll try and DIY the PID during my few weeks off.

    A new grinder is on the list but I'm having trouble justifying spending hundreds to the CFO.

    It might be a viable alternative if it was only me using the machine, but I can't see my Mrs thinking too highly of it. I do like the idea of no external hardware though.
    Manchu, I just came across your post and had to reach out to see if you'd be willing to offer an update on where your Gaggia upgrades ended up. I'm a Pavoni level guy (and father-to-be... circa March 3, 2019) who is looking to vastly simplify the morning coffee ritual and reduce its time-and-maintenance requirements with a semi-auto machine.

    I don't have the space for a "better machine" and have found a used Classic on Craigslist (here in Portland, OR) that I'm thinking about buying. I know I would immediately want to replace the steam wand and grouphead gasket, but was wondering whether you ended up doing anything with PID boiler control and what your experience was like doing so. I'm a EE and would be comfortable with the DIY PID approach but was just mining for others' experiences with various PIDs on the Gaggia Classic. Not yet convinced the PID would be much of an improvement on a machine with such a tiny boiler, but then again, I haven't even used the machine before so what do I know?

    I hope you and your family are doing well.

    Cheers,
    Tim

    Leave a comment:


  • manchu
    replied
    Originally posted by Janus View Post
    I guess it’s just for accuracy. If 10 static for 9 operating is close enough. Doubt it makes much difference.

    I grabbed a needle valve anyway so will test the theory about static. I tried to do it last night but got stuck at trying to unscrew the spout from the group head. I don't have a vice so I slid a 5mm rod (alley key) into the hole on the spout to get some leverage. I managed about 1/4 turn before the allen key broke! bloody tight.

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  • Janus
    replied
    I guess it’s just for accuracy. If 10 static for 9 operating is close enough. Doubt it makes much difference.

    Leave a comment:


  • manchu
    replied
    Originally posted by Janus View Post
    Yeah I think you want a bleed valve on there too probably.
    That's no problem, but I'm not sure why I need it when all the instructions I've read (albeit few) use static pressure for setting. ie. set to 10bar static for 9 bar operating.

    Leave a comment:


  • Janus
    replied
    Yeah I think you want a bleed valve on there too probably.

    Leave a comment:


  • manchu
    replied
    Originally posted by Janus View Post
    I've adjusted the OPV on my classic. There's a Greg Pullman pressure gauge thread on coffeesnobs, worth borrowing it to dial in the pressure as i needed to turn min several rotations to get the pressure down.
    cheers for the info. I've just been looking at the gauge and reckon I can slap something together. If I understand correctly the spout should just screw off my portafilter, leaving a 3/8" BSP female thread. I can borrow the required fittings and and gauge from work.

    I've found this instruction on another forum. https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthrea...Gaggia-Classic

    Leave a comment:


  • Janus
    replied
    I've adjusted the OPV on my classic. There's a Greg Pullman pressure gauge thread on coffeesnobs, worth borrowing it to dial in the pressure as i needed to turn min several rotations to get the pressure down.

    Leave a comment:


  • manchu
    replied
    My budget mods continue. I just ordered a shim for the Sunbeam grinder. worth a shot for $2 as a new grinder is definitely off the cards for the time being.

    I checked the stores at work at found a REX C100 controller but unfortunately it's has relay outputs so can't drive the SSR without modification. Considering the controller, SSR and thermocouple is <$20 on ebay I'll probably just buy that.

    I also forgot about he OPV adjustment. Seems like a nice easy free mod so will have a go when I get the time.

    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/brewing-equipment-midrange-500-1500/25325-gaggia-classic-pressure-modification.html

    Leave a comment:


  • manchu
    replied
    A quick update: Group head seal replaced (I went for silicone) and silva wand fitted. The seal obviously improves things as it was leaking quite badly. The wand is so much better you have to wonder why Gaggia put that plastic piece of @#$^ on the machines.

    I have some paternity leave coming up any day now so I'll try and DIY the PID during my few weeks off.

    A new grinder is on the list but I'm having trouble justifying spending hundreds to the CFO.




    Originally posted by CafeLotta View Post
    An interesting alternative to DIY PID for the Gaggia Classic is the MeCoffee PID . .

    There is no visible external PID hardware. Control is via an app utilising bluetooth to a smart phone (extended functions) or computer (basic functions)
    It might be a viable alternative if it was only me using the machine, but I can't see my Mrs thinking too highly of it. I do like the idea of no external hardware though.

    Leave a comment:


  • level3ninja
    replied
    Be aware that in my experience mecoffee customer support is extremely slow at absolute best of something goes wrong, usually non-responsive.

    Leave a comment:


  • CafeLotta
    replied
    Originally posted by manchu View Post
    Trying to decide between a kit or DIY. Through my work I have access to PID controllers, enclosures, wire etc and so am leaning towards DIY to save some $$, at the risk of increasing the headaches
    An interesting alternative to DIY PID for the Gaggia Classic is the MeCoffee PID - https://mecoffee.nl/mecoffee/

    The PID kit for single boiler machines has a wiring kit for the Gaggia Classic as well as the Rancilio Silvia and Vibiemme Domobar single boiler (Levetta/Piccolo).

    There is no visible external PID hardware. Control is via an app utilising bluetooth to a smart phone (extended functions) or computer (basic functions).

    Apparently there were some reliability issues early on but these appear to have been addressed through an upgrade to some components. Some additional research may be worthwhile if this kit has any appeal.

    Leave a comment:


  • manchu
    replied
    Originally posted by timmyjj21 View Post
    I won't link direct to the document so it credits the author...
    DIY PID Steam and Brew
    I used this guide since it has easy to understand directions and pictures. Super easy PID installation and the cheap Chinese PID it refers to has worked well for years on my machine.
    Cheers. I've all but decided I'll go the DIY route when I get around to PID control so this should be very helpful. If I scavenge I should be able to pick up all the parts for free at work, and the implementation should be within my abilities...I hope.

    Leave a comment:


  • manchu
    replied
    cheers for the replies all.

    I've bitten the bullet an ordered the Silvia wand and Cafelat silicone gasket. I also grabbed a blind basket for cleaning.

    I agree with comments that the Breville grinder being a side step so will aim a little higher. Coincidentally though someone has offered a near new Breville BCG820 for $90 which I'm very tempted by. It'd probably be a $50 changeover once I sold the old sunbeam.

    Leave a comment:

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