I just posted this an another thread - hope it helps.
Length of service: depends how well you maintain them. My 2008* and 2007 SB 6910s are still going strong with no reliability issues after initial havoc. Fail to maintain it properly and you can kill any machine (yep, even $20+K commercial ones) in three months. Feed it poor WA tap water directly and it will die very quickly indeed. I expect the Brevilles are similar as the ones my friends have are well looked after and many years old.
First essential step (if you haven't already worked it out) is to feed it properly filtered water. IMO those in tank filters do terrible things to the flavour of the cuppa so I do not recommend them at all - I removed mine before I finished unpacking the machine out of the box, and I have a firm "throw out on sight" policy for any friend's machine I work on. FWIW, I use rainwater filtered both into the tank and out of the tank - that may be extreme, however after 18 months there is no residual in the tank - although where I live has very clean "virtually salt free" air and therefore very good quality rainwater to begin with.
At an educated guess I reckon the 6910 will give well over 10 years and the Silvia ditto given a fair amount of TLC without going over the top. The 7000 would be about a year less - it is just not quite as solid.
Second essential step - no2 phillips head screwdriver and remove the showerscreens (yep, like some seriously upmarket machines the 6910 / 7000 has twin showerscreens, and preinfusion for that matter). I buy my beans in 250g lots (light to medium roast SO's I like variety) and do the showerscreens every time I change a batch. I could probably get away with 750g on most batches. Oily dark roasts - every 150g or even more often.
Third essential step - a quick preflush starts to dissolve any leftover gunk / warms the machine up properly. I do the standard preinfusion plus a couple of seconds. Ditto a post "current series of shots" flush - after I clean the p/f, I place it back in the machine and do another standard preinfusion plus a couple of seconds. I then wipe down the group area.
Fourth step - the 7000 has both a clean and a descale. I don't do the cleaning cycle at home (remember my rainwater is probably cleaner than most "store bought" distilled waters), however friends with worse water do a cleaning cycle every week or so (depends upon their usage). A descale every few months is a good idea "whether it needs it or not". Basically, if either the steam or the shot "go off the boil" then do a descale before faffing around trying to troubleshoot it.
Fifth step - Note: Especially when learning, it is fairly common to pollute the steam wand's internals with dried on milk. I use a "over half full of water" large milk jug and let the wand heat it up, turn the steam off and leave the jug in place for a couple of minutes (hint: use the drip tray as a stand). That will slurp up some hot water into the wand. Then remove the jug and turn the steam on full - after a splutter of water into the drip tray there should be a plentiful supply of even steam coming out. If not descale it. After your technique improves both the group and the wand will need a descale at roughly the same time.
Enjoy your cuppa - I do...
TampIt
*my 2008 was supposed to be new in 2010, it wasn't and an initial botched repair followed by a proper repair in mid 2011 are its only initial issues. The 2007 6910 received an A to Z clean when I inherited it about 5 years ago. Since then, nothing for either 6910 - not even a seal. I had my Silvia for 9 trouble free years - the next owner took three years to kill it (like most dead Silvias, run it out of water once and pay around $500 for a new boiler / heater). If they had maintained my old Miss S correctly it would probably still be going.
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LRose,
I've only had my machine for a month so I haven't done a descale or a backflush yet. I give it a flush after every shot, I'm probably due to give the shower screen a clean.
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Thanks GazzaPops, I'll go to my local good guys and ask for that price. With regards to cleaning and maintenance, what is the expected regime? Descale, backwash etc?Originally posted by GazzaPops View PostI picked my machine up from The Good Guys for $599 on special.
Heat up time is good and the noise is excellent. The noisiest part of using the machine is frothing the milk!
I have had problems with the puck sticking to the shower screen when I over tamp using the single basket. When it doesn't stick it doesn't come out all that cleanly either so I'm thinking about getting a VST basket.
I'm still really happy with the machine and loving my morning coffee.
Thanks in advance!
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I picked my machine up from The Good Guys for $599 on special.
Heat up time is good and the noise is excellent. The noisiest part of using the machine is frothing the milk!
I have had problems with the puck sticking to the shower screen when I over tamp using the single basket. When it doesn't stick it doesn't come out all that cleanly either so I'm thinking about getting a VST basket.
I'm still really happy with the machine and loving my morning coffee.
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Hi GazzPops, what did you pay for your EM7000? I'm in the market for a new machine and I think I have the exact same requirements as you!? Do you find it quick to heat up and not too noisy?Originally posted by GazzaPops View PostWell I finally bit the bullet and ponied up for the Sunbeam EM7000. I've had it a little over a week now and I'm pretty happy with the machine so far.
Compared to my old Breville it is better in every way, except the location of the steam wand.
I love being able to texture the milk and extract the espresso at the same time. I can make two coffees quicker now than it used to take me to make one with the old machine. It's Soo much quieter too.
Thanks for all your help.
Thanks
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Same here re the gauge, using decent espresso baskets on the 7000, and a naked P/F.
On 6910, VST, and naked p/f. Usually 15gm first thing in the morning, and 7gm after that.
Slowly getting to see one drip stream down the middle, always cut the shot as it starts to go too blond/watery.
Haven't yet sprung to a Vario, still using an EM 480 on both machines, and a 440 in my campervan with an EM5600, naked P/F, but hard to get the best shot out of one of these.
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One point - VST / naked combo will "totally redefine" your correct gauge readings (very different flow rate, finer grind partially compensates but it throws the gauge reading out). My preferred shots start slow, often the gauge maxes out at first and then slowly comes down to the boundary between red and orange. YMMV, however I strongly recommend you tinker to get the best taste and then note what the gauge did... not the other way around!Originally posted by Patmac View PostTamp it and gazzapops thanks for the tips I’m starting to get the 7000 hit on the money in the gauge. Def looking into naked pf and baskets. I’ll keep following. Cheers Pat
As long as your are enjoying your cuppa all is well.
TampIt
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Tamp it and gazzapops thanks for the tips I’m starting to get the 7000 hit on the money in the gauge. Def looking into naked pf and baskets. I’ll keep following. Cheers Pat
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Being pretty unfamiliar with most Breville Grinders - except the Smartgrinder, I assume it is one of those. Most Smartgrinders can do a good job, however just like the 4x0 Sunbeams some are faulty on unpacking. Hopefully yours is a good one...Originally posted by Patmac View Posttampit mind if I ask a couple questions. ? Any tips on the em7000 and using the Breville pro grinder? I am a newbie. Thanks Pat
I guess the main thing about living with the 7000 is to be prepared to tinker a little, maintain a lot.
Not in the manual and should be: Using a No2 philipshead and removing the showerscreens "when needing it" (will depend upon your roasts and your usage) is probably the most critical item for long term consistent coffee.
Also pre flushing before the first run of shots (gets the whole mechanism up to temp) and giving a quick postflush (i.e. the standard preinfusion plus about one second) between each shot plus a wipedown of the grouphead and associated gaps (the old style traditional sponges are a perfect fit between the showerscreen and the collar) will help to keep the quality of the shots up amd keep the machine cleaner. FYI, I do the same on almost any espresso machine, and have done so since 1970 so please all those up market posters - don't bother to "educate me" on that one. Taste rules.
Glad you like it. I still reckon it is the easiest machine to live with - the lack of noise and the 90 second warmup is most compelling.Originally posted by GazzaPops View PostWell I finally bit the bullet and ponied up for the Sunbeam EM7000. I've had it a little over a week now and I'm pretty happy with the machine so far.
Compared to my old Breville it is better in every way, except the location of the steam wand.
I love being able to texture the milk and extract the espresso at the same time. I can make two coffees quicker now than it used to take me to make one with the old machine. It's Soo much quieter too.
Thanks for all your help.
For both of you, when upgradeitis strikes here are my two best options (possibly in reverse order, however if you feel your grinder does not cut it please do the grinder first):
Option 1) Start with the grinder. Most CS readers know I use the Swiss made Mahlkonig Varios (currently 2 * gen2's and 1 * gen3), however any top quality grinder with an even particle spread will improve the taste of your shot dramatically. Makes a huge difference in every way - and even cuts down on the amount of coffee you need to get the same flavour whack. As grinders are way, way more important than the espresso machine please do not skimp here.
Option 2) If you are fairly happy with the grinder, the "terrible trio" works wonders and has a lot of positive synergy. I view them as a package deal. Find / buy / convert to a naked p/f - get some VST baskets (and no, none of the "so say equivalents" I have used have been close to the VST) - consider a flat based quality fitted tamper. I would suggest doing all three together as it avoids the old "two steps forward, one backward" issue by doing that in stage. It also minimises the learning / unlearning grief stricken process I went through.
Likely cost -
1) Naked p/f. The SB7000 has a really thick stainless steel p/f. Without the correct gear it is a pain to convert in a home workshop. Hopefully less than $150 (buying a cafelat p/f was about $120 last time I looked). Having a friend with a "industrial lathe or holesaw" and stainless steel cutting fluid is cheaper, however finding an old 6910 brass p/f (two for $20 here recently) and using any holesaw is cheaper again and likely to give a better finish than using stainless.
2) VST baskets - around $40 each and worth every cent of it. Be aware that they flow about 50% more than standard baskets, and extract close to 50% more flavour. Just buy the sizes you need if you are on a tight budget, or buy the whole set for around $200 if possible (allows a lot of tinkering). Speak to 5 CSrs and expect to get 20+ size recommendations! I have a few sets (and two different locales) however I mainly use the 7g (daily cuppa - but my normal roasts are full flavoured), followed by the 15g (weaker roasts) and 22g (for cooking / breadmaking and doing "bulk bottled lightning" when needed). I rarely use the 18g or 20g. Others differ markedly, probably based on their preferred roast and personal flavour hit.
3) Flat based tampers - from about $40 to several hundred. FWIW, I use a few 316 steel ones mostly Pullman Barista bases and all of the ones I currently use are Pullman wood handles - I like the fit and balance, however that is a personal fitment issue, not a general recommendation. The 316 is good as it does not pick up static unlike virtually any other material - but it is costly. Oh, and I do not use / recommend tamping rings (on the tamper - to let you see how level it is) as they attract coffee grounds. My 316 bases stay clean for eons.
Enjoy your cuppa - the rest is immaterial.
TampIt
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Patmac, I have found that the EM7000 is more sensitive to changes in courseness than grind amount. Using fresh beans from my local roasters I have my grinder set on 9.8 seconds and the grind is 12 for a single shot. I make milk based drinks so my settings may not work for you if you want to drink espresso.Originally posted by Patmac View Posttampit mind if I ask a couple questions. ? Any tips on the em7000 and using the Breville pro grinder? I am a newbie. Thanks Pat
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Well I finally bit the bullet and ponied up for the Sunbeam EM7000. I've had it a little over a week now and I'm pretty happy with the machine so far.
Compared to my old Breville it is better in every way, except the location of the steam wand.
I love being able to texture the milk and extract the espresso at the same time. I can make two coffees quicker now than it used to take me to make one with the old machine. It's Soo much quieter too.
Thanks for all your help.
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tampit mind if I ask a couple questions. ? Any tips on the em7000 and using the Breville pro grinder? I am a newbie. Thanks PatOriginally posted by TampIt View PostYou would probably be happy with a 7000 (I have a 7000, 2 * 6910s and a 2 group La Pav commercial machine).
Out of the ones mentioned it strikes a good balance between being quiet (my others would wake the dead), fast warm up time (circa 75 to 90 seconds, one quick pre flush to warm up the p/f and it is ready to rock) and ease of use (for your wife). Just don't pull my trick and extend the standby settings - it will overheat & blow a milk temp thermostat every couple of years (about a $6 part if you do it yourself).
You did not mention your grinder (or it is very late here and I missed it). Either a Breville Smartgrinder or the SB 480 / 500 are about the lowest that will mostly be up to the job of running into it. I say mostly because I have seen a few shockers of both of them "out of the box". Needless to say, a warranty replacement is a done deal in the early days... Neither are particularly quiet. The Breville is about $250 and is more automated, the SB is $50 cheaper and more "hands on manual". Awaiting specials may reduce that considerably.
The other point worth noting "post grinder" is that converting your p/f to naked and getting some VST baskets will make a huge difference to both the "in the cup flavour" and the amount of coffee you use (15 to 30% less for the same flavour whack).
Good luck with your build (I am doing the same). Enjoy your cuppa - all else is secondary in terms of coffee.
TampIt
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You would probably be happy with a 7000 (I have a 7000, 2 * 6910s and a 2 group La Pav commercial machine).
Out of the ones mentioned it strikes a good balance between being quiet (my others would wake the dead), fast warm up time (circa 75 to 90 seconds, one quick pre flush to warm up the p/f and it is ready to rock) and ease of use (for your wife). Just don't pull my trick and extend the standby settings - it will overheat & blow a milk temp thermostat every couple of years (about a $6 part if you do it yourself).
You did not mention your grinder (or it is very late here and I missed it). Either a Breville Smartgrinder or the SB 480 / 500 are about the lowest that will mostly be up to the job of running into it. I say mostly because I have seen a few shockers of both of them "out of the box". Needless to say, a warranty replacement is a done deal in the early days... Neither are particularly quiet. The Breville is about $250 and is more automated, the SB is $50 cheaper and more "hands on manual". Awaiting specials may reduce that considerably.
The other point worth noting "post grinder" is that converting your p/f to naked and getting some VST baskets will make a huge difference to both the "in the cup flavour" and the amount of coffee you use (15 to 30% less for the same flavour whack).
Good luck with your build (I am doing the same). Enjoy your cuppa - all else is secondary in terms of coffee.
TampIt
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I was in a similar position to you, I hate. hate noisy coffee makers. I ended up with a Ponte Vecchio Lusso lever machine, had it for a long time now.
Always used basic filtered fridge water, never had a scale issue. The only issue with the machine is the seals don't last very long at the start, and as it wears in they last for ages. I haven't changed the piston seals for years now.
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