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Newbie About to Buy a Saeco Incanto Sirius

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  • Newbie About to Buy a Saeco Incanto Sirius

    Hi folks! Im a newbie from the Philippines where we grow fantastic coffee in the hills of Cavite and Batangas (a robusta called "Barako") and in the highlands of Bukidnon on the Island of Mindanao (mostly good arabica). We usually brew our coffee using drip machines or French presses, but I have lately started to develop a serious taste for good latte and want to make my own espresso and espresso based drinks at home.

    So, I have been looking at what options there might be here by way of a home espresso system. Saeco is weakly represented in my country and so is Jura but theyre the only ones here that I know of. I havent seen any dealers or service centers here for Gaggia or the other brands I have been reading about online. Starbucks and Seattles Best are the better known coffee places in Manila but from what Ive been reading online, coffee can be much better than what these places are churning out.

    So, I plan to try my hand at making latte a part of my home regimen and for this, Im thinking of going superauto because of budget and time constraints. I dont want to spend more than US$1500 on my coffee system at this time and it looks like, at this budget, a superauto is the only way to go. I also entertain at home a lot for small groups - so having the push button convenience of a superauto is very appealing to me.

    Before I take the plunge and plunk my hard earned $$ into the Saeco Incanto Sirius (which has many good reviews online), may I know if anyone on this forum has real life experience with this machine and what their views are on the Sirius? I would also appreciate any tips and comments for a newbie just about to embark on his serious coffee trip!

    Thanks mates!


  • #2
    Re: Newbie About to Buy a Saeco Incanto Sirius

    DONT DO IT!!!!!!!!

    Uh, ahem, ... Hi dante and welcome to coffeesnobs!

    Before you take the plunge, let me assure you that with that budget you can get far far better results than youll achieve with any superauto. Id be guessing you could get something like an Expobar semi-auto and a Compak K-3 Elite, or a Rancilio Silvia / ECM Botticelli and a Mazzer Mini. Either of these combos, or several others similar, will give you better results, greater control, cheaper running costs, less breakdowns and greater flexibility than a superauto. They may have a steeper learning curve than a push for coffee super auto, but once youve mastered that your taste buds will thank you!

    People avoid the sorts of packages Ive recommended either because they dont have $1000-$1500 available so they get a cheap thermoblock machine, otherwise they want convenience not good coffee and may go for a superauto. But Ive not come across anyone with that budget who wants a superauto for the price, as superautos are generally MORE expensive than semi-autos, not less.

    The coffee wayside is littered with superauto machines from people who thought "a manual machine is too hard for me", only to end up owning one because of the inconsistency and frustration inherent in trying to improve results from something thats not made for that purpose, not to mention the expensive repairs and maintenance you can rarely do yourself. If you were just after quick coffee and didnt care about the taste I probably wouldnt express such a strong opinion, but you sound like you want good quality coffee and if thats the case then I can see you getting frustrated and disappointed with your purchase down the track. Save yourself the frustration and the extra expense and do it right first time.

    There are heaps of people here who will be more than ready to help you with advice on how to best use such a setup, and the site sponsors would be more than happy to help with recommendations on specific machines and why. You may have limited options in Manila but Im sure well be able to find you something!

    Good luck!

    Greg

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Newbie About to Buy a Saeco Incanto Sirius

      Hi Dante and welcome!

      I whole-heartedlly agree with Gregs comments and I can speak from personal experience!  I initially bought a Saeco Incanto Sirius (Digital), partly because we also entertain large numbers (12-14 people at a time), but mostly because I initially felt intimidated at thought of having to learn the black art of espresso coffee  

      After taking part in a home-barista course, I havent looked back!  I sold the super-auto (within a week of doing the course) and purchased a semi-auto with commercial quality build & components.

      Am I making perfect shots now?  No.  Am I getting significantly better shots that my old super-auto?  Absolutely!  Am I having fun experimenting with all of the variables that a grinder/semi-auto machine allow?  You betcha!!!  ;D

      Reliability could well be a concern for you too - in six months of owning the super-auto, I had to take it back on three occasions (replace milk steamer seal, replace grinder setting clip and of course, regular servicing due to moving (plastic!) parts).  Therefore, if a service agent is not readily available, you might want to factor this in your purchasing decision too.

      Super-autos serve their purpose and (generally) provide a reasonable coffee - - all at the convenient touch of a button.  But for the $$$ budget you noted, the combos Greg suggested will really set you up beautifully (and definitely keep "upgradeitis" at bay for a while  )  With any of these machines (and just a little practice), you will be making sweet, nectar-like espressos in no time... and your friends will think you are a Coffee God  

      Good luck with whatever you decide  

      Cheers,

      -Alchemist-

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Newbie About to Buy a Saeco Incanto Sirius

        Hi Dante,

        If you need some more opinions all I can say is DONT GO THERE. Dont buy the brand mentioned and dont get a super auto either. You will lock into huge depreciation as nobody wants one, frequent servicing, breakdowns and heartbreak.

        Just look at the auction sites to see how many are for sale...The only decent super-autos are the Juras- but give me a real machine any day....

        If you want an auto coffee, I suggest that you get a talented barista in a great cafe to make your coffee for you

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Newbie About to Buy a Saeco Incanto Sirius

          Lets be honest here - no superauto is worth the money or the heartache.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Newbie About to Buy a Saeco Incanto Sirius

            dante,

            Have they talked you out of buying one yet???

            If they havent, Dont buy one. I have had many people that have bought similar machines from that Named brand and they have had nothing but poor coffee not to mention repair bills.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Newbie About to Buy a Saeco Incanto Sirius

              Originally posted by 2muchcoffeeman link=1190001171/0#3 date=1190012070
              Just look at the auction sites to see how many are for sale...
              Actually...if you go into the said place,  there are quite a few of the said machines in there for repairs.

              -Linda

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Newbie About to Buy a Saeco Incanto Sirius

                Originally posted by Maccas_chicka link=1190001171/0#6 date=1190026197
                Originally posted by 2muchcoffeeman link=1190001171/0#3 date=1190012070
                Just look at the auction sites to see how many are for sale...
                Actually...if you go into the said place, there are quite a few of the said machines in there for repairs.

                -Linda
                Firstly, welcome to Coffeesnobs (CS) Dante!

                Secondly, just in case things are getting a bit cryptic for you and since were not trying to sell anything from the said place, please allow me to translate and say that there are many second hand superautos for sale at ebay (the said place) and other such online auction sites.

                Thirdly, Ive never owned a superauto and never intend to and dont in fact know alot about them, but I dont think you are going to find too many supporters of superautos here in CS partly because of the already reported horror stories and partly because people who are part of this community are really into a significant portion of the process of coffee making, from the most complete (perhaps even to the point of growing own beans??? but more often, from roasting to grinding to the art of dosing, distributing, tamping, experimenting, changing different variables all in the aim of getting that perfect espresso shot) to the newbie who at least wants to pull his/her own shot from a semi-auto machine, even without a grinder, but minimally with the process of dosing, distributing and tamping the coffee for themselves . To cut a long story short, it seems like for most people here, superautos exist outside this boundary in which most of us here exist.

                So perhaps you are not going to get too many positive comments about superautos here, rightly or wrongly, thats not for me to say. What I can say is that if you are at all open to NOT getting a superauto, then do seriously consider going down the semi-auto journey. Many here will convince you to do so and I would add my encouragement also. If you are 100% set on a superauto, please restate/emphasise this and hopefully people will give you suggestions about which of the brands/models of superautos is most reliable and produces the best coffee in its class.

                Also, perhaps the site sponsors can advice on whether it is feasible to sell to Phillipines and provide after sales support for you if you do decide to purchase from them (as I would highly recommend you do!)

                Hope this helps in some way...

                Regards,
                Ben

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Newbie About to Buy a Saeco Incanto Sirius

                  Thanks for the warm welcome, folks. Your suggestions and comments made me stop dead in my tracks on the purchase of a superauto. I am now looking at the options that several of you suggested - mainly that of getting a semi-auto and a grinder which might really turn out to be a cheaper option for me up front. I saw a website selling a "starter kit" Rancilio Silvia with a Rancilio Rocky grinder, a 20 oz. frothing pitcher, an RSVP knock box, some cleaners and other minor giveaways for US$915. Way cheaper than the superauto I was looking at. Does that sound like a good deal?

                  Like I mentioned in my opening post, I frequently entertain small groups (5 to 15 people) at home and I planned to feature my espresso machine when I do my entertaining. How easy would it be for me to whip up coffee drinks for my guests with the gear I listed above? What else would I need to get started aside from the items I mentioned?

                  The nearest Rancilio dealer to Manila is in Hong Kong. So, I might basically be on my own for after sales service until Rancilio decides to appoint a Philippine distributer/service center! What could I expect would be service issues with the Silvia and the Rocky in the meantime, and about how long from my first use of the gear will it be before I start seeing those service issues? It would be fairly easy for me to import replacement parts for items that wear out with normal wear and tear (like gaskets, etc) if necessary, but would it be easy for me (or some appliance technician here in Manila) to do minor repairs on the units with the right parts? Are there no special tools required to troubleshoot the machines?

                  Thanks for your patience and your enthusiasm in pointing me in the right direction!

                  Dante

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Newbie About to Buy a Saeco Incanto Sirius

                    For entertaining you may be better to consider a HX machine rather than a SB like Silvia. lowest price HX here is the Oscar it should be able to keep up. With a SB you have to wait to build up steam and also to cool down to pull more shots after steaming. If the Sunbeam 6910 is available in Manilla it would be worth considering. Others here should be able to offer more advice re a machine for entertaining.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Newbie About to Buy a Saeco Incanto Sirius

                      Same again, dont go there with auto machine, its not worth the convenience of making easy coffee to compromising on quality, you want to get the best retsult you can out of your local beans.
                      Good luck with your choice.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Newbie About to Buy a Saeco Incanto Sirius

                        Phew, think we just saved you from jumping off that bridge... uh, buying that superauto!

                        One thing to remember is that there is no one universally perfect setup - it depends on your needs, and this includes:
                        * how many people youre catering for
                        * your budget
                        * time
                        * available bench space
                        * level of concern about taste quality
                        * whether or not youre a hands-on person able to deal with basic maintenance yourself
                        * aesthetics

                        Almost anything you get will be a compromise so you need to identify what compromises youre prepared to make. The Silvia + Mazzer is a great combo for me, but Im only catering for two people, so Id second vicroamers comments that if youre looking to make at least five rounds of drinks at a time then go for a heat exchanger (HX) machine. The Sunbeam EM6910 is another option but not sure of the availability, and they have lots of electronics which may cause unserviceable issues down the track. Keep it simple I say.

                        So with your needs and budget outlined Id steer you away from the Silvia because I dont think itll be able to keep up. If you have $US1500 available and are prepared to spend it, spend it on getting the best combo you can. The Nuova Simonelli Oscar is a good machine as vicroamer mentioned, doesnt look that great but its functional and a HX machine. See if you can find an Expobar Office in your area - theyre about the cheapest regular HX machine I know of and are reasonably well made. The Rocky is a reasonable grinder but Id recommend a Compak K3 or a Mazzer Mini if you can get one.

                        Greg

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Newbie About to Buy a Saeco Incanto Sirius

                          Another newbie here.
                          What does HX mean?
                          And SB?

                          Thanks

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Newbie About to Buy a Saeco Incanto Sirius

                            Originally posted by tojo1 link=1190001171/0#12 date=1190097071
                            Another newbie here.
                            What does HX mean?
                            And SB?

                            Thanks

                            Hi tojo1

                            HX stands for Heat eXchanger.... where there is a large volume of water at steam temperature (generally around 120C - not boiling because it is under pressure).... the water to brew the coffee is heated by passing it through this very hot water..... at a rate of flow that just transfers (exchanges) the correct amount of heat into the brew water. You can extract espresso and texture milk at the same time.

                            A SB is a single boiler (like the Silvia) where water is heated to brew temp.... and you make your espresso.... then increase the temperature to boiling point... to produce steam for milk texturing..... both cant be done at the same time.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Newbie About to Buy a Saeco Incanto Sirius

                              Hi Newbie!

                              We also started where you are at now! Isnt it exciting and very informative on this site. Im sure by now youve almost certainly been converted. We started at the said brand as my parents have one and it made a reasonable coffee. After getting onto this site we have made a purchase in the higher range. We have been very happy with the help we have received from several site sponsers and im sure their expertise will help you to make the best choice for you.

                              Not sure what the exchange rate is but for US$$ maybe you can look up in the next price range too. Why waste all that lovely coffee you have over there! Next youll have a roaster if you stay on this site much longer!

                              Good luck
                              Jaselin

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