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Gaggia Classiv Vs. Sunbeam 6910

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  • Gaggia Classiv Vs. Sunbeam 6910

    Hi All,
    Long time reader, first time poster.

    Im getting married, and Ive decided that if the marriage is to last Ill need good coffee. Lots of good coffee. So, Ive decided to put a coffee machine on my registry. Ive discounted the silvia (its a big bastard and a little to expensive / sensitive), and have narrowed the field to either the sunbeam or the gaggia classic. Ive read good and bad things about both, but havent really seen a direct comparison.

    Any thoughts / ideas / suggestions?

  • #2
    Re: Gaggia Classiv Vs. Sunbeam 6910

    Welcome Doogie!

    Hmm interesting. Ill start by saying Ive never used a Gaggia Classic and only used a 6910 for a few days when I did the review.

    Expect both of them to last a few years but not much more. The Gaggia because it has an aluminum boiler, the Sunbeam because of all the electronics. The Gaggia being a boiler machine, youre going to get better steam volume than you will from the Sunbeam. The Sunbeam would be my choice if you were doing lots of milk drinks in succession. I cant comment on the drink quality of the Gaggia so Ill have to let Lucinda, our resident GCAC representative, take that one on, or anyone else with the experience.

    Greg

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Gaggia Classiv Vs. Sunbeam 6910

      Thanks Greg.

      I get very good coffee from my Classic. It took a little bit of practice and learning of the little idiosyncrases of the Classic to get it right, but I can get a coffee equal too and better than what some people get from a cafe/coffee shop. I also roast my own beans, but before I started home roasting, I used beans from a good roaster here in Adelaide.

      One thing with the Gaggia, is that is based on a commercial machine - so it is a bit fussy over the quality of beans you use. It doesnt like stale beans or preground coffee. Although it is a boiler, I can get four coffees out pretty easily. If you keep the water topped up you could get more.

      The other thing I would recommend is to get a decent heavy tamper - If you cannot afford a custom made Pullman (Gregs) for now, get one of those heavy stainless steel jobbies (pictured).  I have had my Pullman a few months now and it has made a huge difference, even though I had use of a stainless steel one.

      There is a size difference between the Sunbeam and the Gaggia. My Classic and grinder take up very little space in my kitchen. This is an old pic but shows a size comparison.


      I havent used a 6910 myself and all I know of them is from what I have read here so I cannot compare. The only concern I have is the electronic stuff on the 6910.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Gaggia Classiv Vs. Sunbeam 6910

        howser,

        It really depends what you want to do.....

        If you want quite a few milk based drinks quickly, then the Sunbeam is a winner...... but I personally prefer boiler machines and I would get the Classic- a great machine and good value for money.

        As Lucinda said, it is probably a bit more fussy.... but given its commercial machine parentage.... and its solid construction without electronics.... that would be very attractive to me.

        Unfortunately if you want great coffee you have to work for it.... and I wouldnt be put off by the fussiness of the Classic or the Silvia.... it just takes a bit of practice and then you will be making great coffee....

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Gaggia Classiv Vs. Sunbeam 6910

          Originally posted by JavaB link=1191801665/0#3 date=1191809003
          Unfortunately if you want great coffee you have to work for it.... and I wouldnt be put off by the fussiness of the Classic or the Silvia.... it just takes a bit of practice and then you will be making great coffee....
          If none of us were prepared to face a learning curve and a few mistakes, every bike in the country would still have training wheels - and if youve ever tried to go beyond the basics on training wheels youll know that what started out as your lifeline becomes the thing that holds you back. Whatever you choose, dont let the concept of a learning curve and a few mistakes hold you back if it means you end up with a better machine.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Gaggia Classiv Vs. Sunbeam 6910

            To be completely honest - the Classic doesnt take all that long to master. There are a few threads here that discuss how to do this (maybe I will write a tutorial).

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Gaggia Classiv Vs. Sunbeam 6910

              Thanks all for your replies. Its definitely some food for thought.

              Another question: Which machine is more tolerant to staleish coffee? Also, which has the quickest warm up time?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Gaggia Classiv Vs. Sunbeam 6910

                Originally posted by howser99 link=1191801665/0#6 date=1191821517
                Another question: Which machine is more tolerant to staleish coffee? Also, which has the quickest warm up time?
                Any machine will tolerate staleish coffee.... its the person drinking it that wont!!! ;D ;D

                No machine can make a decent coffee from stale grinds (Its a bit like asking what glass can make a walm, flat beer taste good)....

                The Sunbeam ships with pressurised (crema enhancing) baskets as well as normal ones.... With those you can produce a coffee from staleish or stale beans (or even ground up tan bark!) which looks a bit like coffee.... even has crema (sort of) but all, including the tan bark IMHO will taste about as good - and thats cr@p!!!

                All machines need fresh ground coffee to produce a good drink...... without using that you are really wasting your time..... You may get something tasting a bit like coffee, looking a bit like coffee.... but you might as well use instant :P :P

                So if determined not to grind your own freshly roasted beans as you need them..... I guess the Sunbeam and its pressurised baskets would be the go...... but dont offer the resultant coffee to me --- (or a warm flat beer either! )

                The Sunbeam probably heats up a bit faster..... but all machines benefit from being left on a while before use so that the temperature becomes completely stable..... trying to get a coffee from a machine which hasnt fully equalised in temperature again will affect the resultant taste.

                If you want to have coffee 1 minute after getting up in the morning - put your machine on a timer so that it starts heating up say 30 minutes before you want to use it..... that will give the best results.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Gaggia Classiv Vs. Sunbeam 6910

                  Hold the phone! I just saw the Lelit Comb - it has a built in grinder! That solves my whole bind about stale coffee me thinks...Im about to do a search now and see what people think...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Gaggia Classiv Vs. Sunbeam 6910

                    Couldnt find any info on this forum on the Lelit Combo with inbuilt grinder. Can anyone point me in the right direction / give me some idea of how it compares to a gaggia or sunbeam??

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Gaggia Classiv Vs. Sunbeam 6910

                      Have a look at http://www.coffeetamper.com.au/**/imat/ and also try searching for Quaha Napoletana, Imat Napoletana, Imat Mokita Combi, Nemox Cafe Dell Opera, as the same fundamental machine goes under all these names. Version I of the Quaha / Imat machines didnt have a three way valve, but all the newies should.

                      The Lelit is identical to the Napoletana II I owned for a few years and I was very happy with it. Some people dont like combo machines because if one part breaks or you want to upgrade say just the grinder, you cant. But for my needs it was a great starting point, and almost unbeatable value for money. Think all the good points of the Gaggia, plus internals similar to a Silvia (so brass boiler not aluminum) but with a 57mm portafilter. The grinder is comparable to the Sunbeam EM0480 but without the slipping out of grind issue and has infinite stepless adjustment unlike the 0480. I reckon youd come away with more change than on a Sunbeam Em6910/0480 package, have only one power cord and a smaller footprint, all of which translates into greater WAF if thats important (Wife Approval Factor)!

                      Greg

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Gaggia Classiv Vs. Sunbeam 6910

                        Hi Greg,

                        Thankyou for the excellent feedback. I took a look at your tech tips which has given me a better understanding of the machine.

                        Just a few more questions re: the Quaha Napoletana/Imat Napoletana/Imat Mokita Combi/Nemox Cafe Dell Opera (I promise!)

                        - Are the resale value of these machines good?
                        - Are they built to last like the silvia seems to be?
                        - Does it steam well (ie. I do alot of milk drinks)
                        - Does it take long to warm up?

                        Thanks again.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Gaggia Classiv Vs. Sunbeam 6910

                          Dont worry about asking questions, thats what were here for!

                          - Are the resale value of these machines good?

                          Heres the ad for mine http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1164170801. I cant recall what it actually went for because it sold with some accessories, but the $485 for the machine was fetched I believe. At which time it was 4 years old. So about 33% depreciation which is reasonable and about on par with a Silvia, and better than a Sunbeam I would imagine over the same period of time.

                          - Are they built to last like the silvia seems to be?

                          Its certainly built to last, but overall build quality isnt quite the same; but then neither is the price. It feels a bit tinny compared to the Silvia, but thats only compared to the Silvia; in absolute terms its still good and excellent value at the price and at least as good as most other stuff in that price range. Boiler is much the same, its a boiler on group design which is better suited to PIDing than the Silvia. The portafilter is lighter and has thinner baskets, the PF spouts tend to corrode and the threads deteriorate, and it sometimes splits eventually (a Silvia-equivalent spout replacement cost me about $5 from coffeeparts when mine went) (edit: the pics on coffeeco of the Lelit appear to have different commercial spouts. I dont know if they ship with that or if Alans swapping these on aftermarket, I suspect the latter, but either way if it has those spouts this point is redundant). Other things like the steam wand feels a bit more flimsy; steam knob is hard shiny plastic whereas the Silvias is matte and a bit softer; drip tray covers are thinner, though the tray itself holds almost double what the Silvias does; body panels feel a bit thinner too. But none of those things overly affect the quality of what it produces, and I only really noticed them (apart from the spouts) when I was comparing it to the Silvia, which has much more of a commercial feel to it. Have a look through http://www.coffeeco.com.au/articles/comparison.html as this outlines most of the differences with pictures.

                          - Does it steam well (ie. I do alot of milk drinks)

                          Same size boiler as Silvia (300ml) so no quicker or slower, give or take 5%. Have a look at the graphs on http://www.coffeetamper.com.au/**/reviews/sunbeam-silvia/#milk (in fact read that whole section as much of whats said about the Silvia in this department would apply equally to the Lelit). It takes less time than the Sunbeam to get one jug of milk steamed from start to finish, but the recharge time of the boiler will be slower than the Sunbeam, which may be important if youre doing lots of consecutive jugs. So the steam volume on the boiler machines is better (and therefore the capacity for good quality milk), it just takes longer to generate.

                          - Does it take long to warm up?

                          The boiler is up to temperature in about 2-3 minutes so theoretically it can be used then, but ideally it should be left on with the portafilter in place for at least 30 minutes, 60 or longer ideally, to saturate all of the brass to the same temperature. Again Alan to the rescue, compare the difference in shots on http://www.coffeeco.com.au/articles/tweaks.html. The Sunbeam heats up a lot quicker as its made of aluminum rather than brass.

                          Greg

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Gaggia Classiv Vs. Sunbeam 6910

                            Hi Howser99,

                            Not much I can add to Gregs feedback and AFs website (coffeco), they are the experts on the Lelit.

                            Except, to say that I bought one recently and have not been disappointed. I posted a thread on Brewing Equipment - Midrange about a month ago in my excitement and my feelings havent changed. To me it is a good compromise on the Silvia, particularly if you havent got a good grinder already, as it includes the Lux grinder within the unit. As you will no doubt have read on this forum, a good grinder (and fresh beans) is essential.

                            I dont think any sponsors sell this machine (1,000 apologies if Im wrong). I think AF is in Italy for a couple of weeks at present, so you may have to wait (but well worth it IMO).

                            Oh, and another thing youll need is a good tamper - the attached plastic one is crap - see Greg Pullman if you decide to go ahead. (Greg, Im still going to get one off you - do I need to send you a basket? Single OK? Cant bear to be parted from my Double. - Sorry, off topic there.)

                            Anyway, good value for money and its doing a good job for me.

                            Regards.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Gaggia Classiv Vs. Sunbeam 6910

                              Gday H99,

                              Ill add my support to what the Gregs have said ahead of me... I owned an Imat Mokita bought a few years ago and was extremely satisfied with both its performance and quality of build. I ended up installing a PID Controller and this really pushed its performance into a class well above its fighting weight, excellent espressos became a matter of course.

                              As for resale value, after producing hundreds, maybe even thousands of delicious espresso, it ultimately sold to another CS member with the PID for about the margin mentioned above, 30% off original retail. Id have absolutely no qualms in recommending this type of machine to anyone stating out or upgrading from a basic Sunbeam or Breville, etc. All the best,

                              Mal.

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