Re: Gaggia Classiv Vs. Sunbeam 6910
yeah cooly greg - just took it one way. Its funny though because with my 6910 tweaked (min off time, max heat) it still seem to get more power in my steam than i ever did with gaggia?
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Gaggia Classiv Vs. Sunbeam 6910
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Re: Gaggia Classiv Vs. Sunbeam 6910
Yeah Greg - the boiler will be an interesting thing to see. When I descale it, I do not get much scale though, so I am expecting a little bit of build up just because of the aluminium.
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Re: Gaggia Classiv Vs. Sunbeam 6910
Gaggiaboy: Youre probably referring to my second post in this thread http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1191801665/1#1. But what I actually said was:
I was referring to the volume of steam it can supply, not how good overall it is at steaming milk in specific situations which I think is how you remembered the comment, because I havent used it to be able to make that comparison. What I do know is that once its up to temperature it will have ~120ml of steam on tap, or super-heated water that will flash into steam when the steam valves opened, which should result in a good jet of steam. While thats not even half the Silvias 300ml, its still a good head of steam to get started with. The Sunbeam on the other hand relies on little bits of water flashing into steam as it gets pulsed into the thermoblock, and the 6910 I tested was quite unimpressive as far as steam volume went.The Gaggia being a boiler machine, youre going to get better steam volume than you will from the Sunbeam
However in the same post I also mentioned:
because this is one of its great strengths. This agrees entirely with your comment about recovery, which demonstrates I wasnt suggesting the Gaggia is necessarily a better overall steam machine in every situation.The Sunbeam would be my choice if you were doing lots of milk drinks in succession.
Im certainly not out to knock the Classic, or the 6910, or the Silvia. Theyre all different machines which have strengths in different areas, which therefore are going to appeal to different people for different reasons.
Greg
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Re: Gaggia Classiv Vs. Sunbeam 6910
Can i just set something else straight - i read someones post and i cant find it for ref, "the classic being a boiler machine will steam better than 6910". This is tripe! the classic steams nothing like Silvia OR 6910 in ALL ways!
It lacks power to do volume, and recovery to do multiple actions. The 6910 has slightly more power but MAJORLY more recovery. I regulary make 8 cappacinos in a row nicely with 6910, the classic? forget it!
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Re: Gaggia Classiv Vs. Sunbeam 6910
Aluminum is going to corrode no matter how well you maintain the machine. Lucinda Id be interested to see pics of the inside of your boiler if you ever get inspired to take it apart. 3 years would be interesting, especially since Im sure you maintain it well and use good quality water, and would be good to see how a aluminum boiler goes in best case scenario as it were after that long.Originally posted by gaggiaboy link=1191801665/15#19 date=1192011493yea thats my point - maint means all ok on corrosion side of things.
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Re: Gaggia Classiv Vs. Sunbeam 6910
yea thats my point - maint means all ok on corrosion side of things. i also think with maint a 6910 with some stainless internals shoult last more than 2 years.. im just up to almost 1 year and all going strong with 6910. i have to say though i really dont feel how ANYONE can compare 6910 with classic - the 6910 si about 500% bettter in most ways. and im not bias - i loved my classics!!!!!!!!
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Re: Gaggia Classiv Vs. Sunbeam 6910
I think the boiler issues with the classic are more to do with maintenance, like anything. If it is maintained appropriately it will have a shorter lifespan.
My Classic is coming up to three years and still going strong. It is due to go in for a service and I would expect some of the seals etc to need replacing. Its all about general wear and tear.
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Re: Gaggia Classiv Vs. Sunbeam 6910
Fair comment GB. I have no personal experience with the Gaggias so Ill defer to yours on this one. My comment was based on http://www.coffeeco.com.au/articles/july2002.html and some other comments Ive read which all seem to indicate the boilers corrode out. The photos of an 18 month unit didnt look promising, and theres also the comment on recommendations: "GAGGIA CLASSIC & BABY Good value machines with commercial portafilters, enough steam for 2 cappuccinos. Excellent "learners" machine for beginners. Use for 2 years, sell on Ebay before problems start." All the time frames seem to line up to the 2ish year mark, but maybe the problems arent limited to just the boiler as you say.
Greg
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Re: Gaggia Classiv Vs. Sunbeam 6910
i might as well put my 2 cents in as i went from classic to 6910. 6910 is in a league above classic, competing with silvia however with 2 different buil/design philosophies.
greg your comment re "Expect both of them to last a few years but not much more. The Gaggia because it has an aluminum boiler, the Sunbeam because of all the electronics. The Gaggia being a boiler machine, youre going to get better steam volume than you will from the Sunbeam. The Sunbeam would be my choice if you were doing lots of milk drinks in succession."
my last gaggia lasted 2-3 years and then the seals started to go. the pump/boiler was fine. My brothers did the same.
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Re: Gaggia Classiv Vs. Sunbeam 6910
Great! I think Ive been convinced!
Thanks for your help - Ill wait to my fiancee goes away for a few weeks, and the I can have my affair with my new toy!
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Re: Gaggia Classiv Vs. Sunbeam 6910
Gday H99,
Ill add my support to what the Gregs have said ahead of me... I owned an Imat Mokita bought a few years ago and was extremely satisfied with both its performance and quality of build. I ended up installing a PID Controller and this really pushed its performance into a class well above its fighting weight, excellent espressos became a matter of course.
As for resale value, after producing hundreds, maybe even thousands of delicious espresso, it ultimately sold to another CS member with the PID for about the margin mentioned above, 30% off original retail. Id have absolutely no qualms in recommending this type of machine to anyone stating out or upgrading from a basic Sunbeam or Breville, etc. All the best,
Mal.
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Re: Gaggia Classiv Vs. Sunbeam 6910
Hi Howser99,
Not much I can add to Gregs feedback and AFs website (coffeco), they are the experts on the Lelit.
Except, to say that I bought one recently and have not been disappointed. I posted a thread on Brewing Equipment - Midrange about a month ago in my excitement and my feelings havent changed. To me it is a good compromise on the Silvia, particularly if you havent got a good grinder already, as it includes the Lux grinder within the unit. As you will no doubt have read on this forum, a good grinder (and fresh beans) is essential.
I dont think any sponsors sell this machine (1,000 apologies if Im wrong). I think AF is in Italy for a couple of weeks at present, so you may have to wait (but well worth it IMO).
Oh, and another thing youll need is a good tamper - the attached plastic one is crap - see Greg Pullman if you decide to go ahead. (Greg, Im still going to get one off you - do I need to send you a basket? Single OK? Cant bear to be parted from my Double. - Sorry, off topic there.)
Anyway, good value for money and its doing a good job for me.
Regards.
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Re: Gaggia Classiv Vs. Sunbeam 6910
Dont worry about asking questions, thats what were here for!
- Are the resale value of these machines good?
Heres the ad for mine http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1164170801. I cant recall what it actually went for because it sold with some accessories, but the $485 for the machine was fetched I believe. At which time it was 4 years old. So about 33% depreciation which is reasonable and about on par with a Silvia, and better than a Sunbeam I would imagine over the same period of time.
- Are they built to last like the silvia seems to be?
Its certainly built to last, but overall build quality isnt quite the same; but then neither is the price. It feels a bit tinny compared to the Silvia, but thats only compared to the Silvia; in absolute terms its still good and excellent value at the price and at least as good as most other stuff in that price range. Boiler is much the same, its a boiler on group design which is better suited to PIDing than the Silvia. The portafilter is lighter and has thinner baskets, the PF spouts tend to corrode and the threads deteriorate, and it sometimes splits eventually (a Silvia-equivalent spout replacement cost me about $5 from coffeeparts when mine went) (edit: the pics on coffeeco of the Lelit appear to have different commercial spouts. I dont know if they ship with that or if Alans swapping these on aftermarket, I suspect the latter, but either way if it has those spouts this point is redundant). Other things like the steam wand feels a bit more flimsy; steam knob is hard shiny plastic whereas the Silvias is matte and a bit softer; drip tray covers are thinner, though the tray itself holds almost double what the Silvias does; body panels feel a bit thinner too. But none of those things overly affect the quality of what it produces, and I only really noticed them (apart from the spouts) when I was comparing it to the Silvia, which has much more of a commercial feel to it. Have a look through http://www.coffeeco.com.au/articles/comparison.html as this outlines most of the differences with pictures.
- Does it steam well (ie. I do alot of milk drinks)
Same size boiler as Silvia (300ml) so no quicker or slower, give or take 5%. Have a look at the graphs on http://www.coffeetamper.com.au/**/reviews/sunbeam-silvia/#milk (in fact read that whole section as much of whats said about the Silvia in this department would apply equally to the Lelit). It takes less time than the Sunbeam to get one jug of milk steamed from start to finish, but the recharge time of the boiler will be slower than the Sunbeam, which may be important if youre doing lots of consecutive jugs. So the steam volume on the boiler machines is better (and therefore the capacity for good quality milk), it just takes longer to generate.
- Does it take long to warm up?
The boiler is up to temperature in about 2-3 minutes so theoretically it can be used then, but ideally it should be left on with the portafilter in place for at least 30 minutes, 60 or longer ideally, to saturate all of the brass to the same temperature. Again Alan to the rescue, compare the difference in shots on http://www.coffeeco.com.au/articles/tweaks.html. The Sunbeam heats up a lot quicker as its made of aluminum rather than brass.
Greg
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Re: Gaggia Classiv Vs. Sunbeam 6910
Hi Greg,
Thankyou for the excellent feedback. I took a look at your tech tips which has given me a better understanding of the machine.
Just a few more questions re: the Quaha Napoletana/Imat Napoletana/Imat Mokita Combi/Nemox Cafe Dell Opera (I promise!)
- Are the resale value of these machines good?
- Are they built to last like the silvia seems to be?
- Does it steam well (ie. I do alot of milk drinks)
- Does it take long to warm up?
Thanks again.
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Re: Gaggia Classiv Vs. Sunbeam 6910
Have a look at http://www.coffeetamper.com.au/**/imat/ and also try searching for Quaha Napoletana, Imat Napoletana, Imat Mokita Combi, Nemox Cafe Dell Opera, as the same fundamental machine goes under all these names. Version I of the Quaha / Imat machines didnt have a three way valve, but all the newies should.
The Lelit is identical to the Napoletana II I owned for a few years and I was very happy with it. Some people dont like combo machines because if one part breaks or you want to upgrade say just the grinder, you cant. But for my needs it was a great starting point, and almost unbeatable value for money. Think all the good points of the Gaggia, plus internals similar to a Silvia (so brass boiler not aluminum) but with a 57mm portafilter. The grinder is comparable to the Sunbeam EM0480 but without the slipping out of grind issue and has infinite stepless adjustment unlike the 0480. I reckon youd come away with more change than on a Sunbeam Em6910/0480 package, have only one power cord and a smaller footprint, all of which translates into greater WAF if thats important (Wife Approval Factor)!
Greg
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