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  • Newcomer & Silvia - am I silly

    Guys I planned to buy a $200 coffee machine to get me going as I have fallen for nice coffee. But everything I read tells me that small consumer machines will be a disappointment. Is it over the top for a newbie to buy a Rancilio Silvia? I am keen and willing to learn but I can imagine people calling me crazy for considering a Silvia/Rocky combination as a first timer.

    I would appreciate the thoughts of the forums collected wisdom.

    Kind regards,
    Paul Copeland

  • #2
    Re: Newcomer & Silvia - am I silly

    Id say get the best you can afford straight up. It saves you upgrading later and will actually cost you more to get a chepaer one and upgarde later because you will end up selling your old machine for half the price you got it for. Well, unless youre undecided on whether youd like to go down this path. If youre sure then go for it.

    The silvia isnt a very forgiving machine to make coffee on but theres this great site to get more info on if youre having issues. Steep learning curve but very rewarding.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Newcomer & Silvia - am I silly

      Get the Silvia/Rocky. There will be a learning curve, but that curve would still be there if you practiced on a cheaper option first. Anyone who calls you crazy for having a Silvia as a first machine just needs some education, or a good cup of coffee.

      And welcome to CoffeeSnobs - you will find a lot of helpful information here.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Newcomer & Silvia - am I silly

        Welcome Paul!

        Ditto getting the best machine you can afford, and Silvia / Rocky is both a good starting point and a combination that will have a good resale value if (when if you hang around here too long!) you decide to upgrade.

        The Silvia has a reputation for being fussy and unforgiving; I agree to a point in an absolute shot quality sense and am presently investigating my options to address this in my own Silvia. However, as an important rider, I feel most of those comments are made by owners of and in comparison to more expensive machines, in which case such a view is hardly surprising. If youre comparing it to other machines in its price range or the cheaper ones, then the cheaper ones with their thin aluminum portafiters and bare thermoblocks become the fussy unpredictable ones and the Silvia with its brass construction becomes relatively stable. In absolute terms, nothing comes close to providing the temperature stability, build quality and particularly enormous user and support base as that offered by the Silvia. You can hardly go wrong with it at the price point and upgrading down the track is an easy process as there are many in the market for a good secondhand Silvia.

        If you want a bit more info about the Silvia, have a read through www.coffeetamper.com.au/**/reviews/sunbeam-silvia/ as this gives you some info about it.

        Good luck!
        Greg

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Newcomer & Silvia - am I silly

          Hi Paul,

          Agree with the above sentiments.
          Get the best combo you can afford.
          I know a person who went striaght in with a Makin/Compak combo as his first machine and grinder. He has been very happy and will probably be insulated from the dreaded upgrade bug for quite some time.

          I started with the cheap appliances a number of years ago.
          A Braun, a Breville, a Delonghi. All did OK (with crema enhancing baskets) but ALL broke after a short time.

          I then went to the Silvia/Rocky combo. Being a flat white drinker, I found the Silvia more forgiving than many do but I still agree it can be a bit fussy.

          Greg makes a great point that Silvia owners do tend to compare the performance to a more expensive machine.

          All in all, we had the Silvia/Rocky combo for over 2 years and enjoyed it greatly.

          We have had the Minore II for nearly a year now and enjoy it even more.
          We got the Macap grinder a few months back to pair with it and I am happy to report that I appear to be free of the upgrade bug at present!

          The added benefit with the Minore II is that my wife finds it possible to make a decent coffee herself, something she found hard with the Silvia.

          Treat yourself!!

          Brett.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Newcomer & Silvia - am I silly

            I can only add my confirmation of much of the above. I have a Rocky/Silvia combination. Bought from one of the sponsors (thanks Chris! I still love the combo!).

            My personal view about "Silvia is hard to use" is that it is just bunk. Ive only ever had a couple of "oops" moments, but you get that with anything. Inevitably, it happens when someone is watching, of course :-[

            Having said that, I have to admit I have a PID controller on mine - and it is helpful. But the "temperature surfing" technique documented on the net worked just fine for me until I put the PID in (the perils of being a Software Engineer - couldnt help myself). It basically comes down to learning what the machine does. With the PID control you also get a temperature display, which is actually very useful for figuring out when you can start to use the steam etc etc. But it isnt essential.

            To perhaps give you a guide as to how "hard" it is to use Silvia, I make 2xlattes with 100% repeatability like this:
            * Turn on ( : )
            * When temp is reached (OK, I use the PID - but when the light goes out...) - run water through the portafilter into the 2 latte glasses (30ml each)
            * Wait
            * When temp is reached again, run another 30ml through (group head is now at right temp)
            * grind 21g of coffee (I use the bigger LM basket)
            * dry portafilter, whack in coffee, tamp (Pullman tamper is a lovely thing) (Silvia is now ready, again)
            * run coffee, turn on steam heater (at same time)
            * start steaming when temp is 130C - this is about 1/2 the delay between switching the steam on and the light going out...

            This works on 2 other Silvias, without the PID. (Although the 21g becomes something less in the baskets that the other 2 machines came with). Both owners now work to this schedule If you need to make repeated shots, the latter shots dont need any pre-heating of the group head and probably need a wee bit of cooling!

            I think the above will be something similar to what anyone with any machine would do (unless they leave it on all the time etc, etc - I dont).

            Hope this helps - if not - you can PM me!

            /Kevin

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Newcomer & Silvia - am I silly

              I started with a consumer Saeco Via Venezia but very quickly upgraded to Silvia/Rocky setup and the improvement in my coffee skills is quite amazing......definitely buy the best set-up you can afford.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Newcomer & Silvia - am I silly

                Hi Paul,

                Definitely no-one here will call you crazy if you begin on a Silvia/Rocky!!!

                I got a Silvia and Rocky a few months ago (previous to that i only had instant coffee at home) and it seemed like logical decision for me. Its pretty expensive (especially compared to your original plan!) but Silvia and Rocky are built like tanks and will outlast the cheaper machines. Combined they give you the potential to make really good coffee; you wont "outgrow" them as you may do for a lesser machine.

                Also great is the wealth of knowledge on both of these machines and the willingness of other CSs to help poor confused newbies (like i often am!)

                Good luck with it!
                Oh, and welcome to coffeesnobs!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Newcomer & Silvia - am I silly

                  Paul,

                  My initial thought was to suggest starting with a cheap machine & see how you go (mainly because it will cost you less).

                  But if you buy a Silvia & decided to sell in in a years time, you would probably lose around $200, whereas a $200 machine would be worthless. So the Silvia makes good sense cost wise as well. And you are much more likely to pursue your coffee fetish if you are using quality equipment.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Newcomer & Silvia - am I silly

                    Id start with the best grinder and machine you can afford.

                    Ive ended up with 2 HX machines when a year ago I was on the stovetop!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Newcomer & Silvia - am I silly

                      I dont think that the Silvia is beyond you, Paul. If youre really keen, then youll do yourself a favour anyway and either try to get to a home barista course or just keep reading here in your journey to acheive coffee nirvana.

                      The Silvia is a machine that is derided because of its so called temperature problems. Now being aware of all this, youll be able to cope accordingly.

                      And so, to all those who think bad thoughts towards Silvia...

                      When our 2 group commerical machine had its element go the other day, guess which machine I used to keep serving up great coffee to our customers...yep...Silvia!

                      Sure, I went easy on her, mostly using the machine to pull shots and not steam. When there looked to be only a few customers that wanted coffee, I would pour coffee first and then heat up for steam. I only use small jugs at work anyway and so steaming milk was not a great strain. Once, I had done my milk, I was always methodical in running water through the group to refresh the boiler.

                      Put it this way...I put nearly four litres of water through the machine at work the other day. And that was only to pour shots, steam milk and the occassional cooling of the group. I would wipe and clean the portafilter out over the sink that is near to my work area, instead of rinsing it under the group like I normally would.

                      Personally, I thought that the Silvia was pulling better shots than the Brasilia does with the coffee we use.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Newcomer & Silvia - am I silly

                        Thank you Scoota Gal. Your comments are most illuminating and iconoclastic.

                        Somewhere, sometime, someone posted that Silvia was a difficult machine. (probably those pioneers in Alt.coffee). Ever since poor old Silvia has had to wear this undeserved lable.

                        Difficult compared to what? A $4000 commercial? A $2500 domestic HX? A $2000 fully automatic Saeco?

                        The physical technique is much the same as any other single boiler machine.

                        The temperature variation factor is almost always mentioned in relation to the top of boiler temperature --- never mind that results at the solid brass group are much more acceptable thanks to its smoothing effect.

                        Its a great machine, most especially for its price, and hey, it makes great espresso and steam, too.



                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Newcomer & Silvia - am I silly

                          Ditto to all the above. Although igniorance is bliss! If all you are used to is coffe from a lower end machine then you will be farily happy.
                          I went from a chepaer machine (Saeco Magic) that lasted for years until I finally decided it wasnt worth repairing. I decided to replace it with another chepaer machine, BIG mistake. Straight away I wasnt happy and sold it on ebay and lost about $175 on the whole transaction. I then went to the Silvia/Rocky

                          So my advice would be go straight away to the Silvia/Rocky and you wont be disappointed. It should be the last macine that you will ever buy.

                          Good luck. Ditto also to Robusto. Dont believe the bad press about the Silvia it is no harder to use than a chepaer machine, but the coffe tastes a whole lot better

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Newcomer & Silvia - am I silly

                            Originally posted by atsirab link=1196385767/0#12 date=1196648191
                            So my advice would be go straight away to the Silvia/Rocky and you wont be disappointed. It should be the last macine that you will ever buy.
                            Not necessarily. ;D
                            Its a great combo, but there is nothing to say that after... say 2 years.. you might not want to upgrade to a dual boiler or HX machine. And then perhaps upgrade your grinder.

                            However, if you do go with the Silvia/Rocky and take good care of them, they both have pretty good re-sale value.

                            Brett.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Newcomer & Silvia - am I silly

                              Originally posted by robusto link=1196385767/0#11 date=1196468836

                              Somewhere, sometime, someone posted that Silvia was a difficult machine.  (probably those pioneers in Alt.coffee). Ever since poor old Silvia has had to wear this undeserved lable.

                              Difficult compared to what?  A $4000 commercial? A $2500 domestic HX?  A $2000 fully automatic Saeco?

                              The physical technique is much the same as any other single  boiler machine.  

                              The temperature variation factor is almost always mentioned in relation to the top of boiler temperature --- never mind that results at the solid brass group are much more acceptable thanks to its smoothing effect.

                              Its a great machine, most especially for its price, and hey, it makes great espresso and steam, too.


                              I happen to be one of those who think the silvia isnt an easy machine. Not impossible, but not easy at first. I base that on my experience starting out with a Gaggia Carezza. The issue that I had starting out with the silvia is not the temp thing. Its more the dose and grind setting that does not have much margin for error as compared to the Carezza. If I overdose on the Carezza, I wont be able to lock in the PF, so straightaway I know Ive overdosed. If its only slightly overdosed, I can still force the PF in place and the group seal seals in the basket. The shot comes up slower but still decent. With the silvia, If I overdose, I can still lock in the PF but it doesnt seal properly and I get water and coffee pouring out the side of the PF. Ive worked out the dose amounts roughly as follows: Silvia double basket 19 grams of coffee. LM double basket, 21g of coffee. Carezza single 16g & double 19g.
                              Grind setting is the same, a bit more fussy (though only a bit) with the Silvia than the Carezza. I can use the single basket for the Carezza but the Silvia single is almost impossible to get a decent shot in.
                              That said, once Ive worked out those variables, the silvia shots are great! Steaming power is heaps better than the Carezza too.

                              Comment

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