Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Troubleshooting EM7000

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Troubleshooting EM7000

    Hi all, I just bought a 2nd hand EM7000, unknown history. It was cheap. they said that nothing happened when they tried to brew. It came with some extras so I decided it was worth the little I paid!


    I did some initial tests but unsure what to expect as I’ve never owned a pump machine before (my proper machine is a Ponte Vecchio Lusso).
    Checked: Steam wand working, including temp sensor, checked water flowing from group when button selected, water wand also flowing. So all up better than I expected!

    I have a bundle of questions I hope you can help with, please bear with me!

    1) is it normal when turning on the the hot water valve that I don’t get a steady stream of water? I get pulses of water, ie: i hear the pump start and stop with matching interruptions in the flow.

    2) I ran a back flush cycle, is it normal that the pressure gauge doesn’t show any pressure (no movement at all)? I presume it’s normal for most of the water to end up in the drip tray during the backflush and not exiting out from the portafilter spout?

    3) I also removed the shower screen and filter, cleaned it all up and ran a descale cycle, I read in one thread about an o-ring between these 2 discs, I did not have one, should the EM7000 have one? There is a very small amount of dripping from the back of brew head at the top, during the back flush cycle. could this be the problem? Would a bad group head gasket cause a leak that looked like this or would it leak from the portafilter? (Otherwise I have also seen the thread saying to check the pipes around the thermoblock for cracks!)

    4) I ran some test shots, I have a sunbeam burr grinder which I use successfully with my lever machine, good beans etc. Pressure gauge seems to work, but could not get the pressure into the right zone, barely made the under extraction zone and duh… shots were under-extracted ? I was running the double basket at quite a fine grind (went well finer than my normal setting trying to ‘choke it’ and then wind back the grind from there) used a good firm tamp, dosed at varying levels between 17-20g. No joy. Pucks were coming out nice and firm, in 1 piece, not fractured or runny so I wondered if pressurisation might be the problem. Decided to put the cleaning disk in to the double basket and pushed the manual button to test If I could get some pressure up, to see if it the problem was me or the machine, gauge it didn’t get very far. Is this unexpected or does it not have the grunt to get much pressure without a load of coffee in there?

    5) I was running out of beans (and patience) by this stage but my next check will be to watch the drip tray when brewing a very tight grind to see if it’s flowing out there while brewing, if so would it be right to suspect the hot water solenoid?

    6) I didn’t see any dripping from the brew head when making coffee, but could whatever caused the drip be responsible for lack of pressure?

    Appreciate any advice, the machine came with another grinder and some odds and ends that I needed anyway. I figured if I could get it working properly for the price of some parts I could use it at my holiday home for a quick and easy option, we’re currently using a Moka pot there unless we’re expecting company and then I bring my lever machine over with me! ? Don’t want to pour a lot of money into duplicating my setup for something that will only get occasional use.

    Keen to hear any advice/suggestions! Thanks in advance.

  • #2
    Unless water is coming out the hot water spout I wouldn't suspect the hot water solenoid. Yes it's normal for it to pulse the hot water.

    From the sounds of it my suspicion is the 3 way solenoid (brew solenoid), and yes to check that see if anything is coming into the drip tray while backflushing.

    The other thing it might be is the pump itself is worn out and not producing enough pressure. From memory there's no OPV in the 7000 so if they've been working it too hard it might not be up to the task anymore.

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks for the reply level3ninja.
      I did another backflush for good measure. Definitely a bundle of water ends up overflowing into the drip tray during the process, even with virtually no movement in pressure needle. What should a backflush look like? Some water comes out of the PF spouts, even though the disc is in, and some into drip tray.

      Then set my grinder (EM0480] to the finest setting, weighed 20g ground dose, tamped the heck out of…and it actually made a really good espresso! No water running out into the drip tray until I stopped the flow (2 cup runs a bit long for my taste, will adjust program when I’m happier with things).
      Managed to repeat it immediately. So, I am convinced it will make a decent coffee, and happy to commit to spending on parts (I bought this Em7000 together with an em0440 grinder, dump box, milk jug, extra milk thermometer on an auction website for a whopping $67.50 ??)

      Anyway, I’m SURE this test should have choked. I found a Q&A on a product review forum. Sunbeam customer support in one case advised running a pressure test with the blind insert in the 2 cup basket, saying the pressure should hover between orange and red for the duration. Mine definitely doesn’t even get up to the grey.

      I’ll run another descale to make sure the water delivery isn’t the problem, if I get the same result I will order a new pump and replacement grouphead gasket. Any other thoughts? Especially around backflush expectations, which might suggest a different course of action?

      thanks again ?

      Comment


      • #4
        The 3 way solenoid has two states, power on and power off. When the power is turned on, the pipe from the thermoblock is connected to the group head. When the power is turned off, the pipe to the drip tray is connected to the group head.

        When you pull a shot or backflush, and the pump is running there should be no water running into the drip tray, as that pipe will be closed. When you stop the shot water should rush into the drip tray, as the pressure from the group head can now escape there.

        Comment


        • #5
          Ok. that’s definitely strange then. My ‘successful shots’ - had no water to drip tray(i removed the grate and the back piece to clearly see. I heard the pressure release when i stopped the shot and then saw some water exit into tray. Sounds perfectly normal.

          But on the back flush it’s definitely getting much water in there. so perhaps it’s not fully able to close one side? Causing low pressure while brewing and spillage during back flush?

          Internally there must be something different happening during the back flushing cycle because i can run a brew with the blind filter and not get overflow into tray.

          Thanks for the explanation, it’s really helpful to get a sense of what’s going on in there. I almost feel like i should order one of everything! But i’ll start with another descale to rule out gunk preventing stuff closing off properly when it needs to.


          Will keep at it ☺️

          Comment


          • #6
            That is odd. It sounds like the pump can't build up very high pressure, and the 3 way solenoid can hold some but not much pressure. I'd start with the solenoid and see what that changes.

            I assume your beans are fresh etc? If you had access to a metal blind filter that would help rule the pump in or out. They're very cheap, any 58mm blind basket from ebay will suffice.

            Comment


            • #7
              Update: After taking the top off the machine I found a leak coming from the brewhead thermoblock. This was the lower pipe, exiting back/middle of the thermoblock. Seems a common source of leaks according to other threads on here. We tried to tighten it but it snapped and on inspection of the broken pipe there was a bright area ((ie: new break) and an oxidised area, showing the this was already broken a good part of the way through before we fiddled with it.

              Ordered a replacement which finally arrived last week. I didn’t find any good pictures of how to get into the control board section of the machine so wasted some time trying to figure it out and thought I would post some info for the next person who needs to do this.

              To remove the front of the machine and access the control board, lay machine in its back, remove the screws holding in rubber feet and the steel plate under the drip tray area. Remove feet and base plate. Slide the front metal panel down to disengage it, and remove. There are then 2 screws holding in the front plastic cover for the control board. Remove those and take the cover off.

              Click image for larger version  Name:	685E9CCF-0880-404B-A23E-8433B9F739ED.jpeg Views:	0 Size:	38.3 ** ID:	891601

              The wire you need to disconnect/reconnect is easy to find, being the only black double wire with the small square connector. In the image below you see it in the top middle section, it is disconnected in the photo. Have some small cable ties ready as you will need to cut some existing ones to access things and they need replacing at the end to ensure the wires stay away from anything hot!

              Click image for larger version  Name:	06134E8A-38CB-4781-9509-A409F2D60AF8.jpeg Views:	0 Size:	32.9 ** ID:	891600

              We removed the steam and h/w knobs (flat screwdriver between knobs and case) and freed up the steam valve (small brass screw securing this under the steam knob) and unscrewed/pulled out the h/w wand (note: unscrew the tip of the wand or it won’t pull out of the hole). This might not have been necessary but it gave some slack to all the tubing and wires making it easier to work around.

              Replaced the brewhead thermoblock which in itself wasn’t too hard, marked everything we needed to disconnect the be sure it went back in the right places. The thermoblock comes with a solenoid attached, on the end of the pipe which was broken on our existing one, we didn’t touch this and just installed as it was, but on testing before closing up found it was leaking so we had to carefully tighten that up!

              So the pressure test with the silicone disc is the same (no real pressure showing) am ordering a blind filter. Decided to ignore that and try some coffee.
              So my initial tests before the replacement I was having trouble getting pressure, completely unable to choke the machine even over dosed, tamped hard and ground fine. Re-testing now, the machines chokes easily (too easily! Yikes I need to learn what it wants now!) and I noticed the flow from the water tap is actually stronger too which makes sense, as pressure was being lost through the broken pipe presumably.

              So I think we’re winning. My only issue now is dialing in, I’m either getting under extraction (pale crema, weak tasting but not sour) despite being in the good pressure zone during the brew, so I need to adjust tamp/grind… or I’m choking it badly (clearly user error but good to see the machine is responding!). I’ve been using 17-18g but will try 16 next as I am getting too many grounds left behind on the shower screen so I think I need to drop level in basket and work on the grind setting. I shimmed the grinder too which has now given me more wiggle room.

              The group head seal is now white silicone (factory installed on the replacement head) rather than blue, and I can barely turn the portafilter to lock it in, it gets tight but doesn’t get anywhere near 90 degrees to the machine. Should I be worried or just wait for it to break in?

              Anyway, hope this helps! Happy to hear any thoughts ?
              Last edited by AnotherJen; 21 November 2021, 01:52 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Sounds like you're on to a winner.

                Also sounds life the coffee might be old and stale. When was it roasted?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Nah, I’m pretty confident the beans were fine, ran same batch through my lever machine with my usual excellent results, nice, thick deep coloured crema. I did get some crema from my couple half decent shots, it was just pale and insipid. I’ll decrease to 16g and tighten the grind a touch and see where I end up but all up I’m happy to see some potential there. Thanks for your help!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Could also be overextraction. Since you've changed the pressure from the pump that gets through to the group I would assume a whole new dialling in process ala a new machine.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Anything is possible! This is my first pump machine, first 58mm group and the machine got to me in an already busted (as advertised) state. Definitely starting at zero re: the dialing in. Unfortunately I moved the machine to the holiday place so now I have to wait to try again! Looking forward to trying again on the weekend. This will be a convenient machine for me, quick heat up, easy to empty when it’s going to sit unused and streets ahead of the Bialetti I was using over there to avoid lugging my lever machine across all the time!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hi Guys,

                        Please help me my fabulous EM7000 that I bought in 2013 stopped making steam even though the pump was still working. I purchased a new steam thermoblock, and steam pump including the fuse and thermostat. Also purchased a new coffee pump I figured that these would be tired and needed replacement as they were showing rust and some scaling. I replaced the pumps and the steam thermoblock including the thermostat however didn't install the thermal fuse.

                        Tested the machine the pumps worked fine, however, the new steam thermoblock didn't heat up! Next, I installed the new thermal fuse and the steam thermoblock heated up yay!

                        So, now the panel light keeps flashing, both thermoblocks heat up whihc is great however, to my dismay both pumps stopped working OMG. rechecked all my wiring as per the photos I had taken prior to installing the new parts all good. I tried another NEW thermal fuse without success.

                        I have noted some conversation about the relays on the PCB could be the issue not sure why they would fault given all was working fine prior to changing the thermal fuse, can someone help me, thanks in advance.​
                        Last edited by Patty; 4 October 2022, 07:43 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Gah!!! I think my solenoid has died too!

                          Thanks for all the troubleshooting tips.

                          Current presentation is sudden loss of extraction, fresh beans, and have achieved normal/good coffee from this bag of beans, but suddenly not extraction, no pressure, but also sporadic pressure and lots of spluttering…. Sigh.

                          Wish me luck.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            How did you go?
                            Our EM7000 has just started playing up in the past week.
                            If I use the normal amount of coffee/grind size it splutters, almost like it has too much pressure when it does as it pushes the coffee grinds through the basket putting grinds in to the coffee shot.
                            If I set a coarser grind then usual or tamp to coffee looser, it doesn't splutter but of course I have no pressure and an under extracted shot.

                            I've tried a descale with no luck.

                            Comment

                            Working...
                            X