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  • #16
    Re: Where do I start??

    I think that is a good idea. My mother advised me she will chip in $500, but it seems $800 is the starting point for any espresso machine worth getting (which I think is my preferred brewing method - I like the crema and concentrated taste and the idea that taste is the goal rather than caffeine). A good grinder seems to be around $300 - $400 from my crash Internet course in grinder searching around the Net.

    Good point that at least someone can see the benefit of a coffee machine whereas a grinder would appear to be a personal choice.

    Well it is the financial new year (tax time) and I have craved good coffee for well over 8 years now since I discovered espresso and the cafe culture, and always felt something was lacking in many cafes I go to, and for $3 - $4 a pop I have always expected more.

    So the plan I am considering now is to put the $500 toward a good entry level machine, as manual as possible so I can learn the art, use our tax return to get a half decent grinder (around $300 - $400?) and go to a one day barista course in Canberra.

    While seeming like a considerable outlay, people would spend this much on some special car tyres or a blu-ray player without blinking an eye, and this is more important to me. And if I spend around $1000 for the machine and grinder (?), at $3 / day - $15 / week / 48 weeks a year - thats $700 - $800 I am saving on cafe coffee if I stop buying out. So after a year or two it will start paying itself off and I *finally* get good coffee.

    Am I being overly optimistic or is the required outlay substantially more?

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    • #17
      Re: Where do I start??

      I think we need to set up a "coffee snobs wedding gift register"!

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      • #18
        Re: Where do I start??

        Hey there bh,
        If your mother is offering $500, check out a 2nd hand unit for sale in CS Hardware for sale:

        http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1216813514

        I have a similar (same?) machine - Lelit combi. Good entry level machine (similar to Silvia, just not as solidly built) with grinder in-built (conical burr Lux).

        Theyre a good unit and make good coffee. Next step up (for me) would be $3,000+ - HX machine and Mazzer standard grinder.

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        • #19
          Re: Where do I start??

          Hi bennyhill,

          Originally posted by bennyhill link=1217076577/0#15 date=1217200733
          Am I being overly optimistic or is the required outlay substantially more?
          As an aside, you forgot to factor in the cost of beans when making at home. :P At one coffee/day, that would add about $160/year... But I only mention that so that I can cheekily point out that home-roasting the same amount of beans would work out to be about $50/year.

          But first things first...

          Id recommend settling on a machine/grinder combo that you (and your fiancée?) are happy with, then aiming for that. From what you said ($800 for machine, $300-400 for grinder), it sounds like youll be aiming for a Silvia (sounds an ideal match for your wish for a "hand-on" approach) and any of the quality grinders in that price range (Iberital Challenge, Ascaso i-mini, Rancilio Rocky) Youll also want to keep an eye on the "for sale" section of this site, where you can often save $100 on grinders like these by getting a nearly-new one. Likewise, Silvias come up on this site (and ebay :-/) fairly regularly.

          Obviously, it might be hard for you to wait around for the best deal when youre not financing the whole deal...

          Anyway a combo of (for example) the Silvia and Rocky would be around $1200 RRP new. You could pick up a similar 2nd hand (but perfect condition) combo for as little as $800 if you were lucky. You could post a "wanted" thread on the "for sale" section...?


          Are you still thinking of buying a stop-gap machine? I recently got a Breville Café Roma (RRP is $200, regularly reduced to ~$150) and, while playing on my friends Silvia clearly illiustrates how inferior the Breville is, it does make pretty decent coffee with some effort. So... I dont recommend it, per se, but if youre after a stop-gap, this machine is adequate. High praise, that.


          Oh, and dont feel bad for dropping $1000 on coffee gear, there are (unnamed) people on this forum that went from a department store machine and pre-ground supermarket coffee to a $3000-4000 home set up in a matter of weeks.
          Cheers,
          Stuart.

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          • #20
            Re: Where do I start??

            Rightio..  Discussion here still seems to encouraging me toward a grinder, however is it possible to get a good machine for now - say a Sylvia if I chip in an extra few hundred from our tax return, and purchase pre-ground coffee (gasp) from a good site sponsor while I poke around for a second hand good grinder.  Good idea about posting a wanted message, I will do this.  If I purchase from this forum I suspect there is a slightly higher degree of safety here as this forum attracts obsessive compulsives who would more likely take good care of their machine.  That being said, is it possible to go with a new Sylvia (which seems to be the popular choice here and suitably manual to allow me to learn) and a good second hand grinder while I save up for a really good grinder sometime in the next year or so?

            I found a grinder / sylvia combo on eBay although I would wonder what the warranty situation is like

            mod edit- removed link in breach of site sales and posting policy

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            • #21
              Re: Where do I start??

              I definitely advise against the pre-ground bean option. It will lead to tears. Getting even a cheap grinder gave me better results than buying pre-ground.
              The Sylvia is going to cost you around the $1000 mark. For that money you could get a Sunbeam EM6910 or a Gaggia Classic which is closer to your $500 limit and have enough for $300 grinder or even a Sunbeam EM0480 (up to $200) or EM0450 ($150)

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              • #22
                Re: Where do I start??

                Im still going to recommend you spend up on a good grinder and say an AeroPress.

                A former work colleague of mine absolutely raves about how great his coffee is since his lovely wife bought him a Rocky grinder.
                This fellow has always used a plunger but the difference since grinding his own freshly roasted beans with a good grinder has blown him away.

                Buy a good grinder and you may never need a better one.

                If espresso is your aim go for the machine next.

                Machine first is an exercise in futility.

                If you cant get them together get the grinder first.

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                • #23
                  Re: Where do I start??

                  Flogging a dead horse comes to mind..... :

                  Mal.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Where do I start??

                    Originally posted by bennyhill link=1217076577/0#15 date=1217200733
                    So the plan I am considering now is to put the $500 toward a good entry level machine, as manual as possible so I can learn the art, use our tax return to get a half decent grinder (around $300 - $400?) and go to a one day barista course in Canberra.

                    Am I being overly optimistic or is the required outlay substantially more?
                    Well, the question is, substantially more for what? Not sure myself whats new and good and available for $500; best advice there is to make a list of the ~$500 machines you think you might consider, then google their model number to see what people (both here and on similar sites) say about them.

                    Though if youre prepared to stretch then the EM6910 isnt too much more than that new if you shop around (mightnt be as "manual" as youre thinking of though), and youd surely be able to get a good 2nd hand Silvia with a bit of patience, if you were prepared to go 2nd hand, that is. New is nicer, of course, especially where warranty and some help getting started are involved but I doubt youll get much of the latter with a consumer machine.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Where do I start??

                      I was in the same position as you for the last month. In the end I decided I would get a learner system for a year, then when my skills were starting to develop buy a setup to match my skills.

                      I paid $525 last weekend for a new 6910, and have a 480 arriving tomorrow for $179, thats ~$700 *total* for a reasonable entry level setup (all new). Ill use it to learn on for a year then budget $2-3k for something better. I reasoned there was no point driving a ferrari with L plates on!

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                      • #26
                        Re: Where do I start??

                        This a great starter machine / grinder combo I found on Hardware for sale @ $500

                        http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1216813514

                        It will serve you well for a few years

                        KK

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                        • #27
                          Re: Where do I start??

                          I was talking to a local cafe owner today who also reiterated the need for good fresh grinding. It clearly makes a big difference.

                          What are second hand grinders like? As in, can I get away with a second hand grinder and a new Sylvia? I can find them around the net for $700 - $800 which would only require a small chip-in from myself with the $500 generously donated from my mother. Then I could search hard for a good second hand grinder. I just have my heart set on a Sylvia since I have heard so many good thngs about it on this web site (unless I am mistaken?)

                          Would this strategy work?

                          Im sold on good fresh grinding.

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                          • #28
                            Re: Where do I start??

                            Yes a used commercial grinder would be a good investment and can be picked up at good price

                            Check with used commercial equipment dealers in your area or the net
                            also here on the Hardware for sale section

                            Sometimes a local cafe has upgraded to a new one and has the old grinder stored in the back room

                            "Warning" some ex cafe equipment is still on lease and is in fact owned by the lease company so make sure you get clear title

                            Just have it cleaned and serviced with new grinding discs and you will be set


                            However they can be a bit large for a home kitchen

                            KK

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                            • #29
                              Re: Where do I start??

                              Hi Benny

                              Yes a 2nd hand grinder would be fine if its something like a mazzer or rocky or one of the other solidly built, good quality grinders. Just check that it is clean, it doesnt smell of rancid coffee and that the burrs are sharp. If the burrs are not sharp just allow for that in the price. I know for my rocky the burrs are around $50 to replace.

                              Also keep your eye on the for sale section in this forum. Most of the CSers here would have maintained their grinders very well and 2nd hand ones pop up for sale often. Rockys would be less than $400.

                              Mike

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                              • #30
                                Re: Where do I start??

                                how much should I reasonably expect for a functional second hand grinder? Im factoring in ~$800 for a Sylvia.

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