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  • #31
    Re: Where do I start??

    Bennyhill

    WARNING: the ebay prices quoted for new SILVIAs are pretty much retail, despite the fact they suggest you are getting a better price.

    Secondly, coffee machines combine high pressure, hot water and electricity and require a good understanding [skills] to get the best out of them.
    Spend a bit of time browsing these forums and you will realise that our site sponsors give very good advice, support and backup.

    You do need this with espresso machines.,,,will you get it from ebay?

    Thirdly:
    As a CSer you will get discounts from our site sponsors so you probably pay less than ebay too.


    Onto Used Commercial Grinders:

    You will find used commercial grinders go from $200 up to pretty much whatever their new price is.

    Usually the bargain prices are for perfectly capable grinders, but they are generally asthetically less pleasing [eg burnt orange casing not stainless steel]
    Usually for Mazzers and the like, they often go for pretty much the new price.
    Either way, you need to factor in new burrs: $50->100 and you still have the risk [albeit minimal for commercial grade grinders] that there may be unreported problems such as stripped threads in the carrier adjustment, which pretty much render the grinder as useless.

    Also you will certainly need to pull the grinder apart, and strip and clean everything...........if you dont/cant do this yourself, factor in the cost of a service.

    Most commercial grinders are pretty big too, >600mm in height including the hopper, so check this with you SO and your bench/cabinets etc.

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Where do I start??

      BH,

      I have a feeling that when you said "2nd hand", you didnt mean "2nd hand commercial"...? Ex-commercial grinders are obviously excellent quality but they do tend to crowd out the kitchen.

      Again, it depends on your budget as to which (2nd hand) grinder you aim for. The Sunbeam retails for $200, 2nd hand $100-150 (but the build quality isnt that high so it may not be the best grinder to aim for 2nd hand). The Iberital Challenge and Ascaso i-mini retail for $300, and Ive seen the IC for $200 (approx) 2nd hand (this is a well-respected grinder and should be a safe bet 2nd hand - the Ascaso is well built but newer to the market). Then theres the Rocky which retails for ~$400. Anything from this price point upwards (that has kudos on CS) should be a very safe bet 2nd hand (great build quality). 2nd hand, the Rocky seems to sell for $300+ (doesnt diminish in value so much). At the ~$500 RRP price point theres the Compak K3T and the Ascaso i-home (I can personally vouch for the latter). I havent seen either of these 2nd hand on CS - too new to the market, or just too good to re-sell...?

      Anyway, theres a bit of a summary of my understanding of grinders from entry level to $500 RRP. Those are the brands and models most commonly talked about on CS, which suggests that they are the best of the lot at each price point. :P


      Decide on the maximum you want to spend, then add $100, then find a bargain at that price! Thats what I did... Of course, people will say "buy the best grinder you can afford" so if you can stretch to a Mazzer or something, do it!

      Cheers,
      Stuart.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Where do I start??

        So the good grinders that should not present a risk of high servicing costs or adjustment thread stripping or the like will sell for something close to their retail price. If this is the case then maybe I will just have to stretch to an actual new quality grinder. Ill post a wanted notice for a grinder however and see what comes up.

        I also may be able to take advantage of discounts to CSers and drive a bargain trough a sponsor.

        Seems no escaping however, I should factor in a grand a *good* deal for a grinder and machine together, and it is pointless getting one without the other.

        I am so glad I did my research on this forum before rushing out and getting the first machine that looked good and then ended up spending *more* money in the long run to make up for it.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Where do I start??

          Originally posted by bennyhill link=1217076577/20#32 date=1217387904
          I am so glad I did my research on this forum before rushing out and getting the first machine that looked good and then ended up spending *more* money in the long run to make up for it.
          Im glad too because I also dont believe in spending more in the long run than I have to if all it takes is a little extra effort (and $$) up front.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Where do I start??

            Yep, so Ill budget in around a grand and see if I can drive a hard bargain for a set-up around that mark. Or am I still pushing it?

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Where do I start??

              Welcome to Coffeesnobs bennyhill,

              We see quite a lot of machines and grinders brought to us for repair / service after being purchased on Ebay. Many people would put their gear for sale after being quoted a high repair cost required to bring their machine back to operation. Ocassionally, they’d decide to put this repair money against a new / upgraded machine, and put it for sale on ebay, ending up in the buyer incurring that cost to make his / her machine work.

              Espresso machine is an appliance that constantly requires cleaning, as coffee making results in lots of oils, ground coffee, dirt and dairy scum accumulating on each and every metal part involved in the extraction: handles, group head, filter baskets, drip tray, steam arms. etc. Additionally, scale builds up in the boiler is another frequent issue with espresso machines and would require often descaling (hence the importance of using filtered water), particularly in a case of an Aluminum boiler machine, (like the Gaggia range), as Aluminum tends to corrode quickly. Another source of breakdown is obviously wear & tear parts (like the group head seals) which need replacement periodically. Bottom line is, what’s in our cup is a reflection of how well and frequent your machine is cleaned, descaled, backflushed (if one with a solenoid) and serviced!

              If the unit for sale is few years old, never bees serviced, descaled or cleaned, chances are youd be looking at an additional cost of minimum $100.00 to service your machine, just so you can enjoy sufficient pressure, no leakages and an enjoyable taste of your espresso.

              For some people, the peace of mind that comes with purchasing a brand new machine from your local supplier who would also carry the warranty and would repair it in a timely manner with any breakdowns, valued more than the price difference between a new and a pre-loved unit.

              This is certainly not to say that all ebay machines are faulty. Just remember the risk factor and be prepared to pay the extra buck and wait the extra time for your local repairer to fix your machine if there’s a problem…

              With most CS’s knowing the importance of maintaining / cleaning their gear, you’d probably have a better chance in minimizing that risk factor checking the Hardware area for a genuinely pre-loved machine.

              Other option for you, would be to go with a brand new Gaggia Classic with a modified steam arm, to upgrade your milk texture abilities, and one of these grinders option: Compak K3 Touch / Rocky Doserless, Iberital Challenge, all 3 options with a machine would make you depart with less than $1,200.00 in total....

              Youre welcome to drop by DiBartoli and get a demo / hands on with the Gaggia, Silvia, or any other machine you may be interested at. Will be happy to get you through our Assessment Session and find the best solution for your current needs / budget.

              More info on modified steam wand for the Gaggia Classic, check: http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1126833848/100

              Hope we can help further! Ofra

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Where do I start??

                After putting my plans on hold for 9 months I now have the $$$ to get something and this looks good - what do you think?  This forum convinced me that I would be better off waiting 9 months to get the funds to get something worthwhile than rush in to it. There is a 2008 model on eBay from coffee-a-roma combined with a Rocky Grinder for $1,220. But the 2009 model (naturally) looks better.

                How much would Coffee Snobbers pay for a 2009 model Sylvia and Rocky Grinder?

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Where do I start??

                  Originally posted by 293E2E39282F3E295B0 link=1217076577/30#30 date=1217380293
                  Bennyhill

                  WARNING: the ebay prices quoted for new SILVIAs   are pretty much retail, despite the fact they suggest you are getting a better price.

                  Secondly, coffee machines combine high pressure, hot water and electricity and require a good understanding [skills] to get the best out of them.
                  Spend a bit of time browsing these forums and you will realise that our  site sponsors give very good advice, support and backup.

                  You do need this with espresso machines.,,,will you get it from ebay?

                  Thirdly:
                  As a CSer you will get discounts from our site sponsors so you probably [ch65533]pay less than ebay too.
                  Hi bennyhill,

                  Many CS sponsors sell the Silvia and Rocky. All will provide you with a fair price and more importantly provide you with aftersales support as well.

                  You have clearly found the CS site helpful. CS sponsors provide the funds to keep the site running. Perhaps you might consider sending a little back their way? :-?

                  You will also receive a real tax invoice and there will be someone to support you if you should require warranty service. Keep in mind that you will generally get what you pay for. Dont just buy a box. A few $$ more might well be money well spent. It might be worth using the email all sponsors button over <<<<<<<< and at least give it a shot?

                  2mcm

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Where do I start??

                    So how much should I budget for a Rocky Grinder / Sylvia combo?  This seems to be mentioned often in the CS forums so I am making an assumption this combination is something worth aiming for.  I agree that support is required although I am willing to undertake a day barista course if that is sufficient to get me started.

                    There are a tonne of sponsors to go through - any recommendations on a good value sponsor?

                    And am I on the right track with the Rancilio / Rocky combo?

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Where do I start??

                      Originally posted by 23242F2F3829282D2D410 link=1217076577/38#38 date=1239011100
                      So how much should I budget for a Rocky Grinder / Sylvia combo?  This seems to be mentioned often in the CS forums so I am making an assumption this combination is something worth aiming for.  I agree that support is required although I am willing to undertake a day barista course if that is sufficient to get me started.
                      Hi Benny,

                      Try your local sponsor. Many/most will be happy to throw an hours training and the bits and pieces youll need such as coffee, cleaner, blind filter basket, deep double filter basket into the package.

                      If youre going to shell out for a training course, you might find the numbers make sense and that you get a whole new level of support.

                      2mcm

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Where do I start??

                        About $1400 through one sponsor here for the combo.. Sound about right? I suppose that will require a tamper, etc so $1500 is what I should be bracing my wife for.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Where do I start??

                          If you look over at the Jet black site ( http://www.jetblackespresso.com.au/s...nder-packages/ ) their Silvia/Rocky combo is on special for just over $1200. There probably will be a price rise soon with the 2009 model coming out (new look Portafilter + different steam tip)

                          P.S. It would definitely be worth getting the calibration as silvias generally come from the factory with way too high a pressure.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Where do I start??

                            Got it, after all this time!! Thanks to all on the forum! Got this from Cosmorex today - did the calibration and demonstration... Cant wait to make my first cup of coffee tomorrow morning (too late at night now - however tempting!)

                            http://s671.photobucket.com/albums/vv71/helpmeobeonekenobe/Coffee%20Machine/

                            My year long quest make progress! I will update the photo album and Youtube with pictures and images of my quest to barista perfection and will seek feedback on my technique from forum members..

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Where do I start??

                              Congratulations "bh".... [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

                              Who ever said "Everything comes to those who wait." must have been talking about you mate. The journey to great coffee begins.

                              Happy brewing... ;D

                              Mal.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Where do I start??

                                Nice.
                                Congratulations.

                                Comment

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