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  • Upgrade to a Better Machine and Grinder

    Hi All

    Looking to upgrade from my old Sunbeam and Delonghi to a better machine and also upgrade my grinder. Wife and I drink long blacks and the odd milk coffee a few times a week. Have done a bit of reading on these pages and elsewhere and have come up with basically the Breville Dual Boiler and a minimum the Breville Smart Grinder Pro.

    Is it overkill getting the Dual Boiler considering we don't utilise much of that ability as we don't have many milk coffees? I don't want to get a cheaper Breville as they have the grinder in them, one fails, both of the items need replacing. Or what other machines in this price range are good for black coffee? Or most are good as it comes down to the grinder and the operator?

    Am I been too narrow and should look at other ones apart from the BDB? Just that Breville is a name we all know and have been around for yonks, those other brands are probably excellent too, just don't know enough about them.

    I was hoping the Smart Pro Grinder would be a good start for a grinder, but if there are other recommended ones under $500 I would be all ears. Just that I have a budget to work to and hopefully the Budget gets us a decent setup.

    Thanks for your time.

    Dazza

  • #2
    BESave a BDB and use it for long blacks most days. I used to have the Breville grinder but upgraded a few years ago. The Breville BES840 is the same as the 870 but without the grinder. If your budget is a hard limit then one of those with a better grinder, IMS baskets and a well fitted tamper will produce better long blacks than anything with the Breville grinder. Have a look at the Eureka Mignon range.

    Comment


    • level3ninja
      level3ninja commented
      Editing a comment
      "I have" not "BESave"

  • #3
    BDB is certainly good. Perhaps overkill for mostly long blacks, but it does do some pretty nice extractions. Also great for those few milk drinks.

    And I second the Eureka Mignon series. I have mine paired with an entry level Mignon and it’s fantastic, much better than the smart grinder.

    Comment


    • #4
      Have you considered Breville Creatista with reusable pods: you can grind your own coffee, if you wish, or use bought in pods and this machine has milk frothing capability too. Some of Creatista's often on sale for under $500.

      Comment


      • #5
        RE: "Is it overkill getting the Dual Boiler considering we don't utilise much of that ability as we don't have many milk coffees?"

        My guess would be that you aren't really paying much of the cost of this machine specifically for steam. A lot of the work and stuff in it is for black coffee quality. From memory, there might even be a heat exchanger that uses the steam boiler to preheat the brew water - you might want to check that.

        Comment


        • #6
          Originally posted by level3ninja View Post
          BESave a BDB and use it for long blacks most days. I used to have the Breville grinder but upgraded a few years ago. The Breville BES840 is the same as the 870 but without the grinder. If your budget is a hard limit then one of those with a better grinder, IMS baskets and a well fitted tamper will produce better long blacks than anything with the Breville grinder. Have a look at the Eureka Mignon range.
          Budget is not a real hard limit, but trying to be realistic! Yeah still wanting to get a machine without the grinder built in. Seems like Eureka range I need to read up on. The BES840 as it is around $500 I thought i may be nowhere near the quality of the BES920? Sounds like the better grinder would give the better results? ie. better coffee machine not necessarily better results if dont have appropriate grinder ?

          Comment


          • tompoland
            tompoland commented
            Editing a comment
            I think you've nailed it with BDB and Smart Grinder Pro. Definitely not overkill. Pretty much perfect for what you want. If you buy new get an extended warranty to cover you for five years. You can thank me in 3 and a half years time 😀

        • #7
          Originally posted by Whorl View Post
          BDB is certainly good. Perhaps overkill for mostly long blacks, but it does do some pretty nice extractions. Also great for those few milk drinks.

          And I second the Eureka Mignon series. I have mine paired with an entry level Mignon and it’s fantastic, much better than the smart grinder.
          I know there is a lot of variables here but would a BES920 with a Breville Smart Grinder Pro not necessarily out perform a BES840 with a Eureka? The later would probably be cheaper anyway? Or just get the BES920 and a Eureka Mignon and be better off again ?

          Comment


          • Whorl
            Whorl commented
            Editing a comment
            Entirely a personal choice there I would say. Grinder can and does make a big difference, and probably the more impactful purchase. More consistent grind will make a difference regardless of the machine you choose.

            For example, I upgraded from the SGP to the Eureka whilst using a Sunbeam machine and it was a massive difference. It’s been with me for my next two machines (NS Musica and the BDB) and has continued to perform well.

        • #8
          Originally posted by San View Post
          Have you considered Breville Creatista with reusable pods: you can grind your own coffee, if you wish, or use bought in pods and this machine has milk frothing capability too. Some of Creatista's often on sale for under $500.
          To be honest never looked at these, I just assumed they were pod only? Like the heat up times on them and the flexibility for my son (the pods). Thanks, will read up on them also.

          Comment


          • #9
            Just tho throw something else out there, the Breville Oracle is around $1800 at the moment, and some of the automation would be good for sons and wife, but has built in grinder. Assuming grinder would be "basic" and still need to get another grinder ?

            Comment


            • #10
              Originally posted by takiniteasy View Post
              The BES840 as it is around $500 I thought i may be nowhere near the quality of the BES920?
              With the IMS basket and well fitting tamper in the 840 I reckon you'd be miles in front of your Delonghi and wouldn't miss the extra 20% that's possible with the 920.

              Sounds like the better grinder would give the better results? ie. better coffee machine not necessarily better results if dont have appropriate grinder ?
              Absolutely. The 920 is far far more capable than the smart grinder lets it be.

              Originally posted by takiniteasy View Post
              I know there is a lot of variables here but would a BES920 with a Breville Smart Grinder Pro not necessarily out perform a BES840 with a Eureka? The later would probably be cheaper anyway? Or just get the BES920 and a Eureka Mignon and be better off again ?
              The grinder is the limiting factor here. With a smart grinder the 920 won't beat a 840 with a good grinder. Also it's important to note that getting to the upper limits of a machine like the 920s possible espresso shots requires more skill/experience than the average home barista has. It's very attainable but buying equipment doesn't mean it's being used to it's full potential. I would suggest that the knowledge required to get an 840 to it's peak is a similar level of knowledge to getting a 920 to perform to a similar level.

              Comment


              • #11
                Originally posted by level3ninja View Post

                With the IMS basket and well fitting tamper in the 840 I reckon you'd be miles in front of your Delonghi and wouldn't miss the extra 20% that's possible with the 920.



                Absolutely. The 920 is far far more capable than the smart grinder lets it be.



                The grinder is the limiting factor here. With a smart grinder the 920 won't beat a 840 with a good grinder. Also it's important to note that getting to the upper limits of a machine like the 920s possible espresso shots requires more skill/experience than the average home barista has. It's very attainable but buying equipment doesn't mean it's being used to it's full potential. I would suggest that the knowledge required to get an 840 to it's peak is a similar level of knowledge to getting a 920 to perform to a similar level.
                Thanks heaps for the detailed response and explanation. I was originally thinking 920 + Smart Grinder Pro approx 1200 when all on sale etc. Looks like a cheaper machine but dearer grinder. Just didnt even give the slightly cheaper Brevilles a thought. A 840 + decent grinder and few small upgrades, sounds like I would be in front anyway

                Comment


                • #12
                  To be fair the 920 + better grinder would be even better again, but it's not the next step up from where you are now. And if you ever did want to upgrade your could keep the grinder. The Specialita model is great.

                  Comment


                  • #13
                    Originally posted by level3ninja View Post
                    To be fair the 920 + better grinder would be even better again, but it's not the next step up from where you are now. And if you ever did want to upgrade your could keep the grinder. The Specialita model is great.
                    Totally understand, many thanks. Time to digest this all and spend up! Any other grinders I should look at in the 400 - 800 range ?

                    Comment


                    • #14
                      New not really TBH. Second hand grinders are usually pretty good. Have a look at these, not sure where you are but postage is usually an option.

                      https://coffeesnobs.com.au/forum/mar...ureka-atom-60e

                      https://coffeesnobs.com.au/forum/mar...at-grinder-act

                      https://coffeesnobs.com.au/forum/mar...condition-2019

                      Comment


                      • level3ninja
                        level3ninja commented
                        Editing a comment
                        This is assuming you'd rather hopper dose than single dose

                    • #15
                      Thanks level3ninja

                      Will have a look at them. I don't think I'm at single dose yet!

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