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BES860 Solenoid assy problems and machine shutting down

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  • BES860 Solenoid assy problems and machine shutting down

    Hello!

    New to the forum.
    I’ve read all the posts about BES860 trying to find anything that explains my issue with my machine but so far either there is no follow up from the OP on suggested fixes from other forum members or there simply is no reply to said OP.

    So here goes, another post about BES860 with solenoid issues and machine turning off. My unit was purchased in AUS in 2012 and brought to Sweden (we didn’t have Breville or Sage here at that time and we use the same voltage (220-240)).

    Issue:
    When turning the machine on everything sounds and acts normal. When the thermocoil is done heating all buttons illuminate. When I press either 1 or 2 the 3-way solenoid flickers and buzzes. Some, very, little water drops out of the group head when this happens. Next when I terminate the extraction I’m trying to do the 2-way solenoid makes the same sound but the machine turns off suddenly in the middle of the process of relieving pressure from the group head.
    Furthermore the machine can suddenly turn off during grinding. I can’t see any problems (burning, cracks etc) on the PCB either, all the connections seems to be okay.

    Fixes so far:
    I’ve changed both of the solenoids on the assy but did not buy a complete kit just the separate 2-way and 3-way valves incl. electrical unit so they are fresh from Germany, same brand as original OLAB, manufactured May 2021. I’ve given the whole assy a clean and dunked it in water and vinegar, totally disassembled. I’ve blown thru all the water hoses and passages to find any blockage but haven’t so far, I’ve noticed water coming out or air being blown in the group head or any other connection where I was expecting air/residue water coming out so no blockage detected.

    What works:
    Steam from the steam wand is coming out as normal and you can hear the pump working with it’s rhythmical pumping.

    I’ve read different posts and looked at websites and videos describing the usual suspects and how to change them. I’ve done the work but still there is something not working properly as I can’t get a shot or even just a little water from the group head.
    Links:
    https://wiki.jmehan.com/plugins/serv.../view/21135518

    https://coffeesnobs.com.au/forum/equ...pon-extraction

    Please help me get this machine back to life. I’m dying for an espresso!

    Regards, Kerim

  • #2
    Have you inspected the pump and OPV for good flow without obstruction?

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks for your reply!

      Yes the pump is working fine and there are no obstructions anywhere.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Kerim View Post
        the pump is working fine and there are no obstructions anywhere.
        Given your description of no water coming out of the group head, these two statement can't both be true. Either one or both is incorrect.

        Comment


        • #5
          My guess: it's a problem with the control board (possible wear down of the electric components.)

          If the pump is working correctly check if the water goes directly into the drip tray. If so, and assuming the solenoid valves are mechanically good (they are new right?), I can only assume something goes wrong with the actuation signals from the board to the solenoids. I've read on this and other boards that for example a shutdown can occur because of failing capacitors, or that old triacs can cause the solenoids not not behave correctly. Unless you have some electrical- and soldering skills it's going to be either replacing the entire board or buying a new machine...

          I'm having some problems with my own BES860 (no solution yet...). The solenoids are ok, but something is wrong with the control signals from the control board, the solenoids are getting 30-60V (when they should be closed) instead of 0V, it makes the water go to the drip tray instead of the group head.

          I'm seeing around me quite some BES860 models failing with control board problems, guess 8-10 years is going to be the life expectancy for the board/machine.

          Comment


          • Kerim
            Kerim commented
            Editing a comment
            I believe so too. It has to be the control board. Not a wizard with control boards and the components but my brother could help me out. Just need to figure out which component needs to be replaced.

            My solenoids are brand new yes. The 2-way solenoid is not getting any power it seems, it buzzes but it doesn’t give me any read out on any voltage, that could def. be user error though so I will keep troubleshoot. The 3-way solenoid gives me 30-78V when it buzzes. After that the machine turns off. I don’t have your problem of the water just running thru to the group head right away.

        • #6
          Originally posted by level3ninja View Post

          Given your description of no water coming out of the group head, these two statement can't both be true. Either one or both is incorrect.
          Yes they can. I disconnected the pressure line going from the pump to the thermocoil and it squirted down the whole kitchen so there is water coming from
          the pump in the thermocoil. The issue is most likely what the persen after you said about the PCB/control board and the solenoids not getting a correct signal. Because when the machine gives the signal to make a shot and send water to the group head, the 3-way solenoid, even though it’s brand new, buzzes and can’t decide what it wants, therefore “no water to the group head” is a correct statement, there are some water, just some drops coming to the group head if I’m
          lucky. Not enough, pressure wise or other, for a shot of espresso.

          As Mangoie said I believe my issue is the control
          board and some component on it being faulty. I haven’t checked the voltage to the solenoids but will and after that get back to you.

          Comment


          • level3ninja
            level3ninja commented
            Editing a comment
            So the solenoid is causing a blockage because it's not opening? I wasn't trying to have a go, it's just that we couldn't take your statements all at face value and use them as a basis for further troubleshooting because they couldn't all be true simultaneously. If you have a working pump and no blockages, you will have sufficient water flow to build pressure at the group.

          • Mangoie
            Mangoie commented
            Editing a comment
            Well, technically the 2-way solenoid (2nd one) is normally closed in order to direct water to the group. If it malfunctions and doesn't close properly the water goes trough this valve instead of to the group, and straight to the drip tray. You could see this as "no obstruction" in the flow of water, although it's obstruction we actually want for flow and pressure to the group ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

        • #7
          Yes and sorry, I was heading home from a long shift at the hospital, was trying to edit my post but the forum would let me for some reason, so sorry if I came off harsh in my reply.

          I understand the requirements that you give, if there is sufficient pressure AND water is flowing of course there should be water coming out the group. But the problem is the solenoid not opening when it is supposed to as you said, therefore I have no water coming out where I want it to.

          Comment


          • #8
            Originally posted by Kerim View Post
            I haven’t checked the voltage to the solenoids but will and after that get back to you.
            Be very careful and only do this when you know what you're doing. It's 230V AC going to the solenoids, that could seriously harm you. 😮

            Comment


            • Kerim
              Kerim commented
              Editing a comment
              Yes I was careful when measuring the voltage only to touch the leads with the tips of the multimeter Thank you for your concern!

          • #9
            Is the 3-way valve body the right way around? - from memory they have an "A" and "B" end.

            Comment


            • Mangoie
              Mangoie commented
              Editing a comment
              I think the steam wouldn't work if the 3-way would be reversed

            • Kerim
              Kerim commented
              Editing a comment
              Yes it is the right way. I’ve looked at a lot of videos from YT and also took pictures before I disassembled the solenoid assy.

          • #10
            Just to follow up on this issue I’m currently sourcing a “new” PCB. Wish me luck

            Comment


            • #11
              I'm interested how this will go! I don't think the original PCB is sold anymore, but maybe a newer PCB (870, 875) might work? Or did you manage to salvage a new one?

              Comment


              • Kerim
                Kerim commented
                Editing a comment
                Thank you for your interest. I still haven’t found a ”new” board. I will keep you posted if I do and get it working. I don’t think a model with different features will work too good, as far as I know the 870 has a hot water outlet that id the main differens. It is ”just” a different mechanical valve you open to let the water come thru but I think the rest of the machine will have a hard time knowing what to do. I mean it could work but I have my doubts.

            • #12
              Hope you're able to source a board! PCB failure is what took out my well-used BES840 and I never managed to track one down.

              Comment


              • #13
                So, after many months of waiting and searching I sourced a new PCB from AUS for the BES870. The very reputable sales person on Ebay said it would work on my BES860. So here to giving it my last effort before I have to sell it in parts haha!

                Will keep you posted. It should arrive late feb beginning of march.

                Cheers

                Comment


                • #14
                  Hello again!

                  So a small update but still looking for some advice. I've managed to swap the new PCB from a BES870 into my 860 99% successfully. The only hiccup I have is one black cable that the 860 doesn't have so there is no where to connect it and also when I try to grind beans (just try the grinder) the indicator on the front blinks as it should but the grinder is not activated. I've looked over all of my connections and they are solid and good (not soldered but terminated and protected from moisture and such). So my question is basically: where does this black cable go on the 870 and what could I have done wrong so that the grinder is not activated?

                  The steam wand works fine and there is water to the group head without any issues like before (machine shutting down randomly when under load like grinding or brewing) and coil is heating up.

                  Please help me =)

                  Comment


                  • noidle22
                    noidle22 commented
                    Editing a comment
                    The grinder motor uses a white and black wire. Would make sense seeing as your grinder isn't working.
                    I'm surprised the board is working as well as it is so far, you must have got lucky and had a late model front panel in your machine, they changed connectors in them a few times over the years requiring a different circuit board each time.

                • #15
                  That’s the thing. There is already a black wire corresponding to the grinder. I compared the two boards and switch one wire at a time. So there now is a second (or third if you will) black wire on the board that is the one without a possible connection. I’ll post a picture to try and make it clearer

                  On this image that is attached you can find there are three black wires. 1 goes to the power cord. 2 goes to the grinder. 3 is just hanging in there.
                  Attached Files

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