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  • Budgiesmuggler
    commented on 's reply
    Hey - very likely it’s bitter because the coffee you’re using is bitter. Looking at the strength index it’s going to be quite roasty.

  • Blues1143
    commented on 's reply
    Looks pretty good visually to me - if it is still a little bit bitter you could try stopping it slightly short of a 1:2 ratio.

  • gregeeh
    replied
    Hi all,

    Time for the next update as I have now received my WDT, Dosing Funnel and Naked PF. Using all these here is the extraction:
    https://youtu.be/ESfBIZy-zF0

    To me it looks not too bad, but please comment.

    27sec, 19g in, 38g out, 5 sec pre-infusion, and 91 degrees.

    The result is now a lot better but still a bit on the bitter side but certainly an improvement. Once again thank you everyone for your input and assistance.

    Leave a comment:


  • gregeeh
    commented on 's reply
    Hi FNQ,

    First off thanks for that great explanation, I now understand your workaround.

    My last comment had a mistake, I've set my OPV at 10 bar and not 11 bar. Don't know what I was thinking.

    You say, and others too, I should grind finer which will increase my pressure while keeping the out weight and extraction time the same. I agree 100% but doing so previously made the shot very bitter. Maybe things will improve when my new "gadgets" arrive

    Regarding your BDB maintenance. I've had two BDB's in the last 10 years and the boiler O-Rings really need replacing every 2 years. Plus I would not bother with the ceramic washers in the ball value at all as the stainless steel gate in the valve gets pitted so no amount of new washers will fix it. Save yourself some trouble and just replace the whole valve once it starts leaking. Mine lasted 3-4 years.

    Once again, many thanks for your input.

    Greg

  • FNQ
    commented on 's reply
    hi gregeeh

    I personally wouldn't want my OPV set above 10 - and probably when i get around to it will settle for 9.75 or 9.5 ish - in the hope that it ( the pressure gauge) translates to about 9 at the puck .

    In my workaround, i am in effect deleting the pre-infusion and instead throttling back my whole shot pressure to 80% of 11 which is 8.8 bar. So in my case the pump only switches to 80% and stays there until my arbitrary finish point (i picked 50 seconds- as it is long enough after my aimed point of say 30-32 seconds)

    If you have 11 bar but your puck pressure in the pour is only 7, then a traditional(ist) type response is grind finer. (my example below 2 paragraphs, ...shows less pressure degradation at the puck)

    *** Plenty of other people more qualified to respond here , but if you are trying to get initial consistency then extraction at about 9 bar is a good allround starting point.... there are lots of others who are into profiling their shots and so 7 bar ( or even a bit lower) isn't bad at all - look up slayer mod on Home barista forum for BDB if interested) BUT my feedback for a newish user on a BDB is stick to about 9 bar with the rest of your fairly proven recipe ( to start with ) , after you have nutted out consistency then down the rabbit hole you may go!!!!!

    In my example my pressure starts at 0 climbs to about 6-7 at 8 seconds when i see first drips, then just after that hits the OPV X 80% ( and I extract at 8.8 bar trailing away to maybe 8 or a a tiny bit less by the end ( not disintegrating rapidly) I only use manual button and shut down at just under 1:2 ratio ( 18 gms in 33-34 gms out in about 25- 35 seconds) So it is a full shot not pre-infusion at all.

    For you , I would suggest tweaking down the OPV about one turn ( I am jealous of your brass one) , I haven't opened my BES920 up yet I didn't want to mess around and maybe kill my warranty, and I will be getting some o rings replaced and ceramic washers at ball valve flipped by the repair agent ( shortly) at approx 20 month mark of ownership

    Late edit: you made me go and have an afternoon coffee, just so i could double check the figures I quoted for my operation,,,, and Yes all about right and it was delicious thank you.
    Last edited by FNQ; 26 July 2022, 04:31 PM. Reason: Edit : checking figures

  • gregeeh
    commented on 's reply
    @FNG - Thanks for your comments, but do you really mean "so in my case setting preinfusion to 80% for 50 seconds". 50 seconds is a really long time?

    As for the OPV I have installed a Brass OPV and and set it to 11 bar. Constantly getting 7 bar with my present settings.

  • FNQ
    replied
    Hi gregeeh

    Thanks for getting back to us.... much appreciated.

    I think you will be happy with all three of those gadgets, although I am still a sucker for corks and needles.

    Speaking specifically of the BES920 now, keep an eye on your shot pressure. When new my Bdb had its OPV set at 10.5-11 bar ( using blind basket but also showing as the ramp up pressure after pre-infusion). That pressure isn't good for pucks and probably isn't good for taste either. (saeco was saying the same thing) My work around (whilst under warranty) was to use the pre-infusion to throttle down the whole shot ( so in my case setting preinfusion to 80% for 50 seconds) and resulted in the whole shot peaking just under 9 bar. (OPV resetting isn't hard if you want to get back to a more traditional use of pre-infusion- )
    Again - don't get too discouraged if you can't totally replicate a cafe signature blend etc - there are plenty of beans out there that a BDB / Specialta will do a great job with.

    After you have your new recipe set ( 19gm in 35 gms out etc etc ) - don't be afraid to cut one or two as short shots - (ristretto) - the tail of the shot carries a bit more bitterness - so if you are still chasing a Sweeter shot in the cup - lose the tail - maybe 5 seconds shorter - or look at your scales. Good luck

    Leave a comment:


  • gregeeh
    replied
    Hello Everyone,

    I think it's time for an update and a quick summary, but first off thank you everyone for your time, comments and input as it has been really appreciated.

    To recap this is what I started with "My dose is 19g in 35g out in 20-21 secs, so fairly quick and I have dropped the temperature from 93 to 91. Pre-infusion is 5 secs." and it was bitter and none of the Chocolate and Blackberry notes I got in class. The consensus was it was my puck prep so I got a cork and a few thin sewing needles and low and behold my bitterness disappeared and my pump pressure was more consistent, not dropping away as the extraction progressed, like it was before. However I was left with a non sour "flat" boring result with none of the Chocolate and Blackberry notes.

    This was enough to convince me to purchase a puck rake, dosing funnel and a naked PF. I'm presently waiting on them to arrive, probably next week.

    i the meantime I'm leaving what I have alone and not changing anything until my order arrives so I can do better puck prep and think about what my next step should be.

    Once again a big thank you to all.

    Greg

    Leave a comment:


  • amberale
    replied
    Just a thought.
    Have you contacted the cafe/roastery that you took the course at and asked them?

    Leave a comment:


  • gregeeh
    commented on 's reply
    "Your bean recipe for double shot refers to 21-22 grams in with 60 grams out in 30-35 seconds." If you look closer it's 60mL out, not 60 grams which is very confusing. Seems the recipes for all there beans are grams in mL out.

  • roosterben
    commented on 's reply
    Oops sorry yeah I mean 40-45 grams out.

    Your bean recipe for double shot refers to 21-22 grams in with 60 grams out in 30-35 seconds. Most if these recipes don't account for pre-infusion as most commercial machines don't have it. In my opinion 60 grams out is a bit too much for a 30-35 second extraction. But you could try a few recipes 30 seconds (post pre-infusion) 40 grams out, using your grind adjustment to hit this target, taste it then try again, maybe 35 seconds 45 grams out. These two you can probably hit with about the same grind assuming roughly 1 gram per second flow. Taste each and see if you are getting closer to the flavour you got on the course.

    Challenge is there are so many variables you want to change as few as possible at a time. This is not even thinking about group head water temperature, brew pressure, brew water, there are only so many you have access to depending on your machine.

  • gregeeh
    commented on 's reply
    Is this what you really mean " 19 grams in 40-45mls out."? Usually in and out are in grams.
    Also, in what time frame?

    Coffee I'm using is:
    https://coffeesnobs.com.au/forum/equ...288#post922288

  • tompoland
    commented on 's reply
    Fantastic. Truth be told, these are a better investment in quality espresso than buying the most expensive espresso machine.

    I remember one poor guy in the Decent forum asking "what gives? I bought a Decent cos I read it makes the best espesso but it tastes like dishwater". Turns out it was his first coffee machine of any description and he simply expected to turn it on and have amazing espresso pour out.

    Probably should have bought an Aldi pod machine and saved himself US$4,910.

  • gregeeh
    commented on 's reply
    Thanks tompoland for you thoughts. I have ordered a puck rake, naked PF and a dosing funnel. So let's hope for some improvement.

  • saeco_user
    commented on 's reply
    Grinder is a flat burr like yours. Grinding into a cup and maybe breaking up any lumps with a toothpick should give you a pretty close representation to what you were doing on the course. Did you also do any tasting of the beans with a plunger or aeorpress? If so, it may be worth trying with your beans at home as well to see how well the taste matches up
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