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  • Help - which machine ?

    Hi everyone. Im new here, and need some help. I currently have an automatic machine, a Sunbeam EM8910. I love the coffees it makes, but it is a bit slow, and has given us nothing but problems. We are looking at getting something to replace it, and want something reliable.
    I have been told the La Cimbali M21 Jr is a very reliable machine (by the shop that sells them), but the non-plumbed version doesnt have measured doses of espresso shots. It also looks like it would be easy to make a bad coffee.
    I know that a manual machine is more involved than an auto one, and I dont mind that, but I want to be able to make a nice coffee consistently because I cant stand a bad coffee.
    Are there any other ones that have low maintenance costs, and are as reliable and maybe cheaper becuase the M21 is going to be over 3000, plus a grinder.
    I dont mind spending the dough, but I dont want to spend more than I have to.

    Can you guys please give me some advice.

    Im in Perth, so if anyone has any places to go to as well. Ive been to Supreme, and to another place in North Perth/Mt Hawthorn area.

  • #2
    Re: Help - which machine ?

    Hi C-Train and welcome to CS!

    Depending on where you live a CS Sponsor maybe nearby, so that you can actually try a few different machines side-by-side that will match your requirements. Talk Coffee is one such Sponsor, based in Melbourne, and we are their Sydney agent.

    Most machines in the price bracket youre looking at will perform well and with some learning, youll be producing great coffee, consistently, that will be superior to what your current machine can produce.

    Cheers!

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Help - which machine ?

      Welcome C-Train,

      Perth is a bit thin on the ground in machine suppliers unfortunately and we dont have any site sponsors over there at this stage. However with that budget and the right technique through a bit of training, getting better results than your 8910 should be a given. You could easily purchase a machine for the low $2ks and a high hundreds grinder and youll be in business. Of course there are cheaper options but if you have the funds available you may as well take the flexibility youll get at that end. Some sponsors have reciprocal servicing arrangements with WA and freight isnt that much normally so you could still check out what we have available in the Info about Machines thread.

      FWIW, the M21 is a good machine but no more or less so than many many others.

      Greg

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Help - which machine ?

        C-Train;

        Most of the coffee machines over 2000 dollars mark are reliable as long that you clean it and use filter water. Di Bartoli Specialize in domestic machine, I probably suggest that check our website and contact us. We actually have a service agent in Perth that could help you if is needed.

        Cimbalis are a terrific machines the guys from Supreme and Espresso Italia they do a very good job over there.

        Regards


        Renzo

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Help - which machine ?

          Hi C-train and welcome,

          As mentioned, there is nothing wrong with the Cimbali machine. I personally find it a tad "industrial" for home- but that is merely my own preference.

          I think that volumetric touch pads can be overkill for home and generally recommend a good lever machine in preference. There is not need to be scared of a lever- consider it as merely a sexy on/off switch. Hopefully youd want to be involved in the process and be at the machine anyway?

          My advice is to save money that need not be spent and invest the savings in a quality grinder.

          FWIW, we ship machines to Perth almost every week and have many happy clients in Perth. Service is not a problem.

          Please feel most welcome to make contact if you would like to discuss some options.

          regards

          Chris

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Help - which machine ?

            So Ive had a read on here, and looked at a few machines, and Im thinking its down to three now.
            Firstly, one point. The Cimbali is now out. Too expensive compared to everything else available.
            Im thinking either the Rancilio Silvia, Gaggia Classic or Sunbeam 6910.
            Ive heard the Rancilio takes a long time to heat up ? How long is a long time ?
            Having had a Sunbeam 8910 auto machine, Im wary of them. Also, the only authorised Sunbeam repairer in Perth is not the sort of place you want to visit too often. Scary. I can share elaborate if you want.
            Which brings me to the Gaggia. Im thinking the money we save from the Cimbali will buy a better grinder, which will go further in making a good coffee.

            Does this sound like good logic to people out there ?

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Help - which machine ?

              Hi C-Train and welcome to CS....

              A "long time" is something like 45 minutes for the group assembly to heat to a stable temperature - and that applies to all machines - not just the Silvia.

              A 6910 might heat up a little faster..... as it is a thermoblock rather than a boiler machine..... but for best results allowing these to heat up will also benefit your shots.....

              There are various ways of reducing the heat up time (have a browse here on CS) which work to varying degrees.... but the simplest is to put the machine on a time switch so it turns on 45 minutes before you want to make a coffee.

              And yes, spend as much as possible on a good grinder and get a "affordable" quality coffee machine for best results.....

              Never the less, La Cimbalis are great machines...... but also need a great grinder (read expensive for both items!!!)

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Help - which machine ?

                Welcome C Train

                I would like to know how many cups you would consume on a daily or weekly basis

                What I am getting at is the machine you buy must be capable of the use it will be subjected to

                Because I make several cups for myself and family 8 to 10 + per day
                I chose to spend the extra cash and got a (HX) Heat Exchanger machine
                It is a lever model but very simple to use

                KK

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Help - which machine ?

                  Thanks for the responses everyone.

                  I would make about 6-8 cups a day. But this can vary anywhere between 2 and 14. Not all for me, although some days...... :-)

                  I looked at the Rancilio today, and the guy at the shop was very helpful and made us a coffee with one.
                  It took literally 2 minutes before the light went off and it was hot, so I dont understand why everyone is saying 45 minutes on here. Am I missing something ?
                  The wife doesnt like the look of the gaggia, which brings us back to the 6910.

                  Which brings me to my question:

                  How long does a 6910 take to heat up some milk. (enough for 2 lattes, in coffee mugs)
                  The people at the retailers wouldnt plug one in to show me, which really annoyed me because they show you the TVs etc because theyre all switched on against the wall. I argued with one of the guys, saying I care a lot more about a good coffee than a good TV screen, so can I test it ? Got told "No, I dont know how to use it" I said "I do, Ill give it a shot, where can we plug it in ?" Got shut down again. It seems I need to buy one, and hope it heats the milk quickly enough.
                  The reason this is important to me, is that the 8910 auto machine I have and am replacing takes a good solid five minutes to do this, which I think is too long. I know the Rancilio I saw today did it in about 1 minute.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Help - which machine ?

                    Hi C-Train,

                    Based on your recent responses, it seems that this thread is better located in the <$1.k section- so I have moved it...

                    Good luck with the shopping...

                    2mcm

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Help - which machine ?

                      C-train

                      The light going out means that some of the water in the boiler (near the thermostat) is up to temperature..... There is a LOT more metal in the group and the portafilter which must also get to temperature and stabilise if you want quality espresso and the water has to reach a uniform temperature as well..... and that is what takes the time! If he made a coffee after 2 minutes..... walk away and find someone who really knows how to use the machine !

                      All machines take a similar time to heat up all the metal so that the water (at the correct temperature) doesnt get cooled as it passes into the group and the PF (which will cause a sour shot due to low temperature). You may not have noticed this - yet - but as your taste develops and you realise much of the coffee you have been drinking up to this point has probably been cr@p - you will understand what we are on about.

                      The problem with buying from any "normal" retail outlet (one that sells washing machines, hair dryers and coffee things..... yep there are some over there :-/)..... is they dont know what they are doing! They wouldnt really be able to demonstrate the machine properly..... so no real point in them even trying! Its a bit like going to your GP and asking him/her to perform delicate brain surgery on you. Knowing how to get the best results out of a coffee machine is a specialist job...... (unlike the claims made by Choice :). And a specialist can show you how to do it properly as well.

                      If you want fast milk texturing then a boiler machine is the go..... most thermoblocks are pretty poor...... but the 6910 seems to be reasonable and many are happy with the results.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Help - which machine ?

                        Hi C-Train

                        Just a thought, FWIW...

                        Why try to buy an espresso machine from a TV salesperson  :-?

                        Would you go to an espresso machine specialist if you wanted a TV??

                        2mcm

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Help - which machine ?

                          Originally posted by C-Train link=1223521907/0#5 date=1223600236
                          Also, the only authorised Sunbeam repairer in Perth is not the sort of place you want to visit too often. Scary. I can share elaborate if you want.

                          Hello C-Train,

                          I know what you may be talking about (Rustic?). But there is more than one (that deal with the 6910) and I assure you the service agent in the Western Suburbs is fantastic.

                          Runfast!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Help - which machine ?

                            Hi C-train, Perth is bereft of anywhere to go and get good advice on espresso machines.
                            The 3 machines you mentioned have devoted follwers, Gaggia Classic, Silvia and Sunbeam 6910.
                            I have a Silvia and she is a great machine, built to last, she takes a little while to get all the variables in place but its worth the effort, my son has a 6910 in his bedroom and he loves its ease of use and quick warmup (thermoblock). I dont find the warmup time for Silvia a problem, any good boiler machine with solid parts takes time to heat up, there is a method of cheating to heat her up in about 5 minutes and it works quite well.
                            I purchased my machine in Perth from the place you named and I wasnt that happy with their service (or lack of it). Site sponsors would give you a good deal and advice on your machine of choice.
                            Good luck with your decision.
                            cheers........................gm

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Help - which machine ?

                              C- train

                              As someone who has already moved along the upgrade path (Im on my 3rd machine) I think you will be sorely disappointed if you underspend. While the machines you list are good in their own way (and I have not owned any of these) you claim the following:

                              - you want to make 10+ cups per day
                              - you want good coffee
                              - you want the machine to be ready to make coffee quickly
                              - you want to steam milk quickly
                              - price isnt the biggest consideration

                              Given that info, I wouldnt be aiming any less than a good quality single boiler $1500+ . For less than the $3K you were prepared to spend on the Cimbali, you get get an excellent HX +grinder combo. This is what you should be looking at.

                              The Sunbeam can brew and steam simultaneously but the thermoblock steamers on my last two machines took at least 30 seconds The message I often read here is that the Sunbeams dont last a long time. The Rancilio Silvia would be a better option however it is a single boiler.  I have a single boiler machine and a problem is the time taken to pour the shot then wait for the steam to build up to make the milk.  With practice the time can be reduced, but you cant steam while you are pouring a shot. Same with the Gaggia.

                              A HX will last you many years, can be left on all day and will steam your milk in very quick time (300 mls in around 10 seconds). You can put it on a timer to turn it early ready to for your first cuppa of the day.

                              No one is trying to make you spend more than you have to, but we are encouraging you to buy wisely. Given your list of requirements the HX is your best bet.


                              Comment

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