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Help - which machine ?

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  • benjamind
    replied
    Re: Help - which machine ?

    Id say the Lelit combi is the best bet for anything below $1000. I think it performs as well as a Silvia and the grinder that is built in to the machine is of decent quality.

    If I were restricted in what I could afford, the Lelit would be the one Id pick.

    Leave a comment:


  • Thundergod
    replied
    Re: Help - which machine ?

    Originally posted by venno link=1223521907/0#17 date=1223639636
    I have had the 6910 for a few days now (my first machine) and all is going well. It heats up very quickly and recovers quick as well. I am still trying to get the hang of steaming milk, but the steam is available very quickly and on demand from then on. I make lattes mainly and it takes around 25s to steam a jug for 2 people.

    The grinder works good too, but there seems to be a rather coarse variance between steps (but for $170 its cheap).

    Makes a good coffee, but so far not a great coffee. This is largely due to the operator in training .
    10 cups a day will wear out a 6910 very quickly.
    They are OK to a certain point but not designed to play in the big league no matter what Sunbeam says.

    Leave a comment:


  • Koffee_Kosmo
    replied
    Re: Help - which machine ?

    As someone who has already moved along the upgrade path (Im on my 3rd machine) I think you will be sorely disappointed if you underspend. While the machines you list are good in their own way (and I have not owned any of these) you claim the following:

    - you want to make 10+ cups per day
    - you want good coffee
    - you want the machine to be ready to make coffee quickly
    - you want to steam milk quickly
    - price isnt the biggest consideration

    Given that info, I wouldnt be aiming any less than a good quality single boiler $1500+ . For less than the $3K you were prepared to spend on the Cimbali, you get get an excellent HX +grinder combo. This is what you should be looking at.
    C Train
    I asked a good question based on your coffee drinking habits a few posts above

    You will be disappointed with the performance of any machine that is not capable of your coffee drinking needs
    I agree with Flynn. A good HX machine is you best choice

    Note I am responding with my answer that is based on the amount of coffee you make
    Let me put it in parable form

    Now would you tow a 30 FT boat with a 4 cylinder car?
    If you answer is YES? See response 1 if you answer NO? see response 3

    (1) This is your Sunbeam 6910
    Towing a 30 foot boat with a 4 cylinder car - will wear out the car and I am sure you will not reach highway speeds, also very poor driver control, the fish would have moved on  :

    (2) This is your Silvia
    It’s now a six cylinder car - you won’t wear it out but due to lack of power you still find it lacking in your overall control as it can run out of steam,  you will find that you can’t go up hills while the air conditioner is on

    (3) Now this is a HX machine
    Its now an 8 cylinder car – and you feel comfortable with its ability to do the task at hand you find that you can fit 4 of your 100kg mates in with you air conditioner is on and you don’t notice any strain because you have matched the correct combination to do the job

    So what are you going to do  
    KK

    Leave a comment:


  • Intellidepth
    replied
    Re: Help - which machine ?

    Hi C-Train, Id like to add a particular heat exchanger and grinder combo to your list - a VBM Domobar Super Lever and a Macap M4 (or Mazzer Mini), which I purchased around 4 months ago for under the 3K mark. I mention this mainly because of your stated usage and original start-price and desire for great coffee. The VBM + Macap can meet your needs.

    Because of the stability of its heat-exchanger and E-61 group head, which does require a 45 minute pre-heat, the VBM can easily handle larger quantities of coffees back-to-back (great for entertaining), as well as simultaneous brew/steam capacity.

    For $10 at Coles you can buy a 24-hour timer which can switch your machine on and off during the day to meet your preferred needs. I understand the VBM also has the build to survive being left on from morning until evening, although like any piece of equipment it would eventually reduce the lifespan of the machine.

    Leave a comment:


  • venno
    replied
    Re: Help - which machine ?

    I have had the 6910 for a few days now (my first machine) and all is going well. It heats up very quickly and recovers quick as well. I am still trying to get the hang of steaming milk, but the steam is available very quickly and on demand from then on. I make lattes mainly and it takes around 25s to steam a jug for 2 people.

    The grinder works good too, but there seems to be a rather coarse variance between steps (but for $170 its cheap).

    Makes a good coffee, but so far not a great coffee. This is largely due to the operator in training .

    Leave a comment:


  • TC
    replied
    Re: Help - which machine ?

    Originally posted by C-Train link=1223521907/0#15 date=1223638003
    Ok, whats a HX ?

    I know its a heat exchanger, but what does it do, how does it work, and what machines have them ?

    Are they completely different from other machines ?

    (Oh man, this really shows my lack of knowledge) :-[
    Try some espresso 101 C-T http://www.home-barista.com/forums/espresso-machines-101-t368.html

    Hope it helps...

    2mcm

    Leave a comment:


  • C-Train
    replied
    Re: Help - which machine ?

    Ok, whats a HX ?

    I know its a heat exchanger, but what does it do, how does it work, and what machines have them ?

    Are they completely different from other machines ?

    (Oh man, this really shows my lack of knowledge) :-[

    Leave a comment:


  • flynnaus
    replied
    Re: Help - which machine ?

    C- train

    As someone who has already moved along the upgrade path (Im on my 3rd machine) I think you will be sorely disappointed if you underspend. While the machines you list are good in their own way (and I have not owned any of these) you claim the following:

    - you want to make 10+ cups per day
    - you want good coffee
    - you want the machine to be ready to make coffee quickly
    - you want to steam milk quickly
    - price isnt the biggest consideration

    Given that info, I wouldnt be aiming any less than a good quality single boiler $1500+ . For less than the $3K you were prepared to spend on the Cimbali, you get get an excellent HX +grinder combo. This is what you should be looking at.

    The Sunbeam can brew and steam simultaneously but the thermoblock steamers on my last two machines took at least 30 seconds The message I often read here is that the Sunbeams dont last a long time. The Rancilio Silvia would be a better option however it is a single boiler.  I have a single boiler machine and a problem is the time taken to pour the shot then wait for the steam to build up to make the milk.  With practice the time can be reduced, but you cant steam while you are pouring a shot. Same with the Gaggia.

    A HX will last you many years, can be left on all day and will steam your milk in very quick time (300 mls in around 10 seconds). You can put it on a timer to turn it early ready to for your first cuppa of the day.

    No one is trying to make you spend more than you have to, but we are encouraging you to buy wisely. Given your list of requirements the HX is your best bet.


    Leave a comment:


  • greenman
    replied
    Re: Help - which machine ?

    Hi C-train, Perth is bereft of anywhere to go and get good advice on espresso machines.
    The 3 machines you mentioned have devoted follwers, Gaggia Classic, Silvia and Sunbeam 6910.
    I have a Silvia and she is a great machine, built to last, she takes a little while to get all the variables in place but its worth the effort, my son has a 6910 in his bedroom and he loves its ease of use and quick warmup (thermoblock). I dont find the warmup time for Silvia a problem, any good boiler machine with solid parts takes time to heat up, there is a method of cheating to heat her up in about 5 minutes and it works quite well.
    I purchased my machine in Perth from the place you named and I wasnt that happy with their service (or lack of it). Site sponsors would give you a good deal and advice on your machine of choice.
    Good luck with your decision.
    cheers........................gm

    Leave a comment:


  • runfast
    replied
    Re: Help - which machine ?

    Originally posted by C-Train link=1223521907/0#5 date=1223600236
    Also, the only authorised Sunbeam repairer in Perth is not the sort of place you want to visit too often. Scary. I can share elaborate if you want.

    Hello C-Train,

    I know what you may be talking about (Rustic?). But there is more than one (that deal with the 6910) and I assure you the service agent in the Western Suburbs is fantastic.

    Runfast!

    Leave a comment:


  • TC
    replied
    Re: Help - which machine ?

    Hi C-Train

    Just a thought, FWIW...

    Why try to buy an espresso machine from a TV salesperson  :-?

    Would you go to an espresso machine specialist if you wanted a TV??

    2mcm

    Leave a comment:


  • JavaB
    replied
    Re: Help - which machine ?

    C-train

    The light going out means that some of the water in the boiler (near the thermostat) is up to temperature..... There is a LOT more metal in the group and the portafilter which must also get to temperature and stabilise if you want quality espresso and the water has to reach a uniform temperature as well..... and that is what takes the time! If he made a coffee after 2 minutes..... walk away and find someone who really knows how to use the machine !

    All machines take a similar time to heat up all the metal so that the water (at the correct temperature) doesnt get cooled as it passes into the group and the PF (which will cause a sour shot due to low temperature). You may not have noticed this - yet - but as your taste develops and you realise much of the coffee you have been drinking up to this point has probably been cr@p - you will understand what we are on about.

    The problem with buying from any "normal" retail outlet (one that sells washing machines, hair dryers and coffee things..... yep there are some over there :-/)..... is they dont know what they are doing! They wouldnt really be able to demonstrate the machine properly..... so no real point in them even trying! Its a bit like going to your GP and asking him/her to perform delicate brain surgery on you. Knowing how to get the best results out of a coffee machine is a specialist job...... (unlike the claims made by Choice :). And a specialist can show you how to do it properly as well.

    If you want fast milk texturing then a boiler machine is the go..... most thermoblocks are pretty poor...... but the 6910 seems to be reasonable and many are happy with the results.

    Leave a comment:


  • TC
    replied
    Re: Help - which machine ?

    Hi C-Train,

    Based on your recent responses, it seems that this thread is better located in the <$1.k section- so I have moved it...

    Good luck with the shopping...

    2mcm

    Leave a comment:


  • C-Train
    replied
    Re: Help - which machine ?

    Thanks for the responses everyone.

    I would make about 6-8 cups a day. But this can vary anywhere between 2 and 14. Not all for me, although some days...... :-)

    I looked at the Rancilio today, and the guy at the shop was very helpful and made us a coffee with one.
    It took literally 2 minutes before the light went off and it was hot, so I dont understand why everyone is saying 45 minutes on here. Am I missing something ?
    The wife doesnt like the look of the gaggia, which brings us back to the 6910.

    Which brings me to my question:

    How long does a 6910 take to heat up some milk. (enough for 2 lattes, in coffee mugs)
    The people at the retailers wouldnt plug one in to show me, which really annoyed me because they show you the TVs etc because theyre all switched on against the wall. I argued with one of the guys, saying I care a lot more about a good coffee than a good TV screen, so can I test it ? Got told "No, I dont know how to use it" I said "I do, Ill give it a shot, where can we plug it in ?" Got shut down again. It seems I need to buy one, and hope it heats the milk quickly enough.
    The reason this is important to me, is that the 8910 auto machine I have and am replacing takes a good solid five minutes to do this, which I think is too long. I know the Rancilio I saw today did it in about 1 minute.

    Leave a comment:


  • Koffee_Kosmo
    replied
    Re: Help - which machine ?

    Welcome C Train

    I would like to know how many cups you would consume on a daily or weekly basis

    What I am getting at is the machine you buy must be capable of the use it will be subjected to

    Because I make several cups for myself and family 8 to 10 + per day
    I chose to spend the extra cash and got a (HX) Heat Exchanger machine
    It is a lever model but very simple to use

    KK

    Leave a comment:

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