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Hi All, need help & recommendations on an automatic coffee machine

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  • KarlHelbig
    replied
    Re: Hi All, need help & recommendations on an automatic coffee machine

    Originally posted by 734F5249434255404843270 link=1232503730/26#26 date=1272094795
    Originally posted by 1025282F1B072B22222121440 link=1232503730/25#25 date=1272082902
    I am yet to see a milk frothing device which didnt suck....
    Saw it coming...laughed anyway.  ;D
    Dont be too critical!! Yes the commercial machines are better, but the superautos have a place as well. My Saeco generally made very acceptable coffee for about 5 years, quickly, and quite good result. And any bozo could use it .

    As others have said, superautos really need somone involved in the machines operation on a regular basis who has a clue about what makes good coffee, and make the adjustments required to make it work well. And some cleaning might be required.

    Leave a comment:


  • Thundergod
    replied
    Re: Hi All, need help & recommendations on an automatic coffee machine

    Originally posted by 1025282F1B072B22222121440 link=1232503730/25#25 date=1272082902
    I am yet to see a milk frothing device which didnt suck....
    Saw it coming...laughed anyway. ;D

    Leave a comment:


  • TC
    replied
    Re: Hi All, need help & recommendations on an automatic coffee machine

    Originally posted by 6D47544A6E434A444F41260 link=1232503730/24#24 date=1272071140
    In the end, the milk frothing device wouldnt suck any more....
    Really??!! I am yet to see a milk frothing device which didnt suck....

    Leave a comment:


  • KarlHelbig
    replied
    Re: Hi All, need help & recommendations on an automatic coffee machine

    Originally posted by 2B2E22262E217E4F0 link=1232503730/18#18 date=1234266214
    I really dont understand why people want superautos.  I guess in comparison to some cheaper domestic espresso machines (which are a real pain, and not worth it), superautos may seem desireable.  But I personally I think hx machines are easy as and so reliable.  They are easy to get good coffee (on most), and quick to clean.  it is then even easier if it is plumbed in, and drip tray connected to drain.  I mean to make a coffee during the day (including cleaning) takes about 1m total, then backflushing at the end of the day about 1m, plus a clean of the drip tray 2m.   How can you get much easier than that!
    Hi, I know I havent been a regular of this forum, but I have some input to this discussion which I know is now two months (?) old, but...

    I just timed myself making a coffee on my Promac Creen Compact commercial machine, using a Delonghi burr grinder.  From start to walk away took just over 2 1/2 minutes.  The first 1 1/2 mins was just grinding, pack & tamp, get milk.  Then to extract, froth & pur another minute. This was uninterupted and for someone with experience.

    From my prespective there are two reasons people would buy a superauto machine:
    1. The time factor, only about 1 or 1 1/2 minutes per cup.
    2. Easy enough that anyone can do it with little training.

    I am a teacher and in my workplace, I need to get 7 or 8 cups made in about 10 minutes, without a barista operating - each person making their own.

    I bought a Saeco Royal Capuccino about 6 years ago (paid $2400), which lasted around 5 years.  It produced an excellent extraction for an auto machine - took some tampering with the grinder to grind finer than it was default able to.  I sent it away for servicing once a year which cost about $200 each time.  In the end, the milk frothing device wouldnt suck any more.  But overall it was quite easy to use, two boilers, meaning you could extract and do milk at the same time - much quicker, probably only took 1 1/2 minutes per coffee.

    Then I picked up a cheap Delonghi (Magnifica EAM3500??) from Cash Converters at a steal $550.  Couldnt resist at that price ($1200-$1400 RRP).  Again, the extraction was very good, grinding as fine as possible, but the milk came out way too cold.  I had to slow down the milk rate by taping a piece of plastic over the inlet of the milk hose and using a skewar to poke a hole just the right size into it.  This slowed down the flow rate and made it OK.  But this was a bodgy solution and needed replacing every month or so.  After that, the coffe was really, very good for superauto!

    Also, the Delonghi only has one boiler, so this slowed down the whole process often meaning if there was a line, you would miss out during our short morning tea breaks.  (not cool).

    The big plus with this machine was the CLEAN button on the milk jug.  This makes it easy for people who dont care as much to remember to rinse the milk spout when putting the milk back in the fridge.  The whole milk device is much cleaner and easier for people to use and clean than the Saeco machine, which you used your own jugs, and had to get a separate jug of water to run through it to clean it.  It was a pain and often people wouldnt bother mucking around with it.

    My two cents worth, I would not buy a Delonghi again, because of the milk being too cold, and I would definitely not look at a single boiler machine again - too slow.  If they fixed the milk temperature and on a two boiler model, then it might be OK.

    Im now looking at a Jura X9 on a rent to buy plan.  This is why I ended up checking out this forum to see what people thought of the coffee.

    My biggest complaint with these superautos, is they put the milk in first, then extract over the milk.  I hate this as you dont get any crema on the top.  I always do the extraction first, then add the milk to that.  Does anyone know if the Jura X9 can do this within the on-touch programs.  ie. hold off on the milk untill the coffee is in the cup?

    Cheers.

    Leave a comment:


  • kevinelp
    replied
    Re: Hi All, need help & recommendations on an automatic coffee machine

    Actually, it was 7-8 years ago. So youre definately correct in saeco royals being around for years

    Id expect youre also right in that they would have made improvements in that time. I havent experienced a Saeco since then, so cant really comment on more recent machines.



    Leave a comment:


  • coffeewise
    replied
    Re: Hi All, need help & recommendations on an automatic coffee machine

    Re: Saeco Royal.

    Kevin - sounds like the Saeco you had would have been 4 or 5 years ago. I know that since then Saeco have been using stainless steel boilers/thermoblocks and at about the same time introduced a 2 year warranty. I am not sure if that still applies.
    I think that the advantage with the Royal Capp over other machines is that essentially the workings and parts are the same as they have been for many years - other than the ones that have been improved upon.

    James Carter

    Leave a comment:


  • kevinelp
    replied
    Re: Hi All, need help & recommendations on an automatic coffee machine

    Cant resist adding some anecdotes.

    In a past life, work had a Saeco Royal - it worked great for about a year+, around 10,000+ coffees. It died in what supposedly is a common death for them, a seal goes that showers some of the electronics in water. Seem to recall it was expensive to fix - about 50% the price of the machine if I recall correctly

    Next job, we got a Jura (S9), it lasted about 2+ years, with about 2-4 modest services/repairs - about 30000+ coffees, before we replaced it with the same. Not a bad innings I thought.

    The current one is going well again - except when some bright spark put whole beans in the ground coffee chute.

    Having a Silvia at home, I agree that the coffee is not as good out of the automatics. But the automatics result in virtually zero mess - something some people value - also, the instant caffeine fixes are something I cant say I mind .

    I would not bother with an auto at home though, Id rather grind coffee, load and tamp while the machine warms up, than wait twiddling thumbs for an inferior shot - the first one after switching on is always cold and sour. Milk frothing sucks on all the automatics Ive tried as well.

    - Kevin



    Leave a comment:


  • Dimal
    replied
    Re: Hi All, need help & recommendations on an automatic coffee machine

    Why not buy a swag of AeroPress brewers, a decent grinder and establish a rapport with a reputable specialist roaster (plenty to choose from here) and show everyone how to use an AeroPress properly. Its dead easy as a process, easy to clean and the filter papers are reusable. All this coupled with the capacity to produce excellent coffee suitable for Long Blacks, a Pseudo Espresso, and terrific Flat Whites.

    Just need to make sure that you buy a really good grinder and source a regular supply of excellent, freshly roasted coffee. Then, give it a trial with a couple of AeroPresses to start off with to see how it would work, re: grind setting, brewing procedure, etc and once youve got that down pat, spread the word. Your company could probably get a bulk buy discount for more than a minimum number of AeroPress units that drinkers could then buy off you, deducted from salary or what ever seems reasonable at your workplace.

    Thereafter, anyone who wants to jump on the bandwagon could buy an AeroPress from one of our Sponsors or elsewhere and enjoy the fruits of your hard work .... Seems like a plan

    Mal.

    Leave a comment:


  • A_M
    replied
    Re: Hi All, need help & recommendations on an automatic coffee machine

    Originally posted by 2B2E22262E217E4F0 link=1232503730/18#18 date=1234266214
    I really dont understand why people want superautos.  I guess in comparison to some cheaper domestic espresso machines (which are a real pain, and not worth it), superautos may seem desireable.  But I personally I think hx machines are easy as and so reliable.  They are easy to get good coffee (on most), and quick to clean.  it is then even easier if it is plumbed in, and drip tray connected to drain.  I mean to make a coffee during the day (including cleaning) takes about 1m total, then backflushing at the end of the day about 1m, plus a clean of the drip tray 2m.   How can you get much easier than that!
    I know people who obtained an EM6910... Did the training and after a small dinner party of 4 people... Sold it and went to a Auto and spent something in excess of $6K.

    Their comment... They love the simplicity of the Auto... Poor in ya bag of beans .. Add milk etc and then just press the button... No Mess and other than cleaning up at some stage ie. Milk... She is good to go till the beans run out. 4 people over for dinner hit the button a few times and presto... No mucking about with SS milk jugs / Frothing, Grinding , Tamping etc etc...

    Last I heard it had to go back for servicing But they still say it was one of their better purchases :

    Then again... If that is what their happy with.... Who are WE to argue.

    Are they passionate about coffee... NO.. Are they after a perceived convenience and $$ no issue ... YES.

    Leave a comment:


  • damian1
    replied
    Re: Hi All, need help & recommendations on an automatic coffee machine

    I really dont understand why people want superautos. I guess in comparison to some cheaper domestic espresso machines (which are a real pain, and not worth it), superautos may seem desireable. But I personally I think hx machines are easy as and so reliable. They are easy to get good coffee (on most), and quick to clean. it is then even easier if it is plumbed in, and drip tray connected to drain. I mean to make a coffee during the day (including cleaning) takes about 1m total, then backflushing at the end of the day about 1m, plus a clean of the drip tray 2m. How can you get much easier than that!

    Leave a comment:


  • JavaB
    replied
    Re: Hi All, need help & recommendations on an automatic coffee machine

    Originally posted by 5355584159554D340 link=1232503730/16#16 date=1234223169
    yes, i think they are in a no win situation, they dont want to do the maintenance themselves so they will just have to accept the risk that they have to pay to freight the machine for servicing.
    Unfortunately that will probably lead to more time without the machine than with it!

    Super automatics (and Jura is one of the best - if not the best) require a fair bit of maintenance because of their complexity.

    A lot of this maintenance can and should be done by the end user - just like any other coffee machine - and needs to be done on a regular basis.

    Failure to carry out this maintenance is the prime reason for failure of super autos..... requiring far more major (and expensive) professional repair and adjustment......

    A less automatic machine (which is far more robust) would be better suited to their needs - but will require more skill to operate....

    So I guess they will either have to live with a lot of down time.... or purchase 2 machines and swap them when one is back for repair...

    Or just learn to live with instant coffee...

    (IMHO a plunger would be a good choice)

    Leave a comment:


  • galumay
    replied
    Re: Hi All, need help & recommendations on an automatic coffee machine

    Originally posted by 0E21282A3D022E212E282A222A213B4F0 link=1232503730/15#15 date=1234183205
    If so then you have to manage the risk or look at another system..  However all systems require some level of service...  It is just that some, allow more user intervention and these are usually the more manual systems.
    yes, i think they are in a no win situation, they dont want to do the maintenance themselves so they will just have to accept the risk that they have to pay to freight the machine for servicing.

    Umm I wonder where you are and  why you say this ???  Not that I do not believe you but !!!!
    unusual i know! i live in NE Arnhem Land, the water is artesian and i work in a Lab, the TDSs are 0.

    Leave a comment:


  • A_M
    replied
    Re: Hi All, need help & recommendations on an automatic coffee machine

    Originally posted by 21272A332B273F460 link=1232503730/14#14 date=1234179282
    i also have a friend determined to buy a fully automatic coffee machine, is the consensus that the Juros are the best class?
    I can not comment first hand, but I have heard it said that they are one of the better systems...

    do they require servicing on a regular basis by an agent?
    All machines require some level of user maintenance and Auto often require works to be performed by experienced tecs due to the level of complexity and intergration of grinders etc etc.

    If you set your grind too fine and / or use poor quality beans etc. You can get blockages and to clean it: the system may have to be partly dismantled... Service AGENT in most cases..

    this is not really feasible due to our remote location.
    If so then you have to manage the risk or look at another system.. However all systems require some level of service... It is just that some, allow more user intervention and these are usually the more manual systems.

    we do have very soft water with no scaling whatsoever if that helps.
    Umm I wonder where you are and why you say this ??? Not that I do not believe you but !!!!


    Leave a comment:


  • galumay
    replied
    Re: Hi All, need help & recommendations on an automatic coffee machine

    i also have a friend determined to buy a fully automatic coffee machine, is the consensus that the Juros are the best class?

    do they require servicing on a regular basis by an agent? this is not really feasible due to our remote location.

    we do have very soft water with no scaling whatsoever if that helps.

    Leave a comment:


  • coffeewise
    replied
    Re: Hi All, need help & recommendations on an automatic coffee machine

    Ive said it before somewhere, but i reckon the Seaco Royal Cappuccino is the best auto if that is what you want. Easily adjustable, hasnt changed in years, heaps of service agents, think they still offer two year warranty, parts are readily available. Similar parts in Gaggia, Miele, Spidem. Just stay away from Saecos new machines.

    Remember to heat your cups before you use any autos or any machine for that matter.

    James Carter

    Leave a comment:

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