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Hi All, need help & recommendations on an automatic coffee machine

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  • Hi All, need help & recommendations on an automatic coffee machine

    Hi All, was referred to this forum by a co-worker. Basically I am looking for an automatic expresso espresso machine that will grind beans and make coffee. Dont care about automatic milk (manual milk frother is fine). Since I am a bit lazy and want to move away from my stove top expresso maker (cos im lazy :P ). I want to spend upwards of $1000. Thanks for any help/recommendations in advance!

  • #2
    Re: Hi All, need help & recommendations on an automatic coffee machine

    The most common advice youll get here is "dont". At their best, superautos cant produce espresso that comes close of a reasonable manual at its worst.
    With the exeption Jura, there also seems to be huge reliability issues. I cant remember how many times my Saeco Incanto went in for repairs, but our house became a routine stop on the repairers run to and from work (when Saeco did their own repairs - which they dont any more).
    There are many tales of woe here, and my advice would be to avoid superautos - and Im speaking from experience, having owned the top-of-the-line Saeco. My brother ignored my advice and bought a new one about six months ago, and it has spent more time at the repairer than in his kitchen (and theyve admitted they cant fix it!).

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    • #3
      Re: Hi All, need help & recommendations on an automatic coffee machine

      Originally posted by 474D40555649485544210 link=1232503729/1#1 date=1232504925
      The most common advice youll get here is "dont". At their best, superautos cant produce espresso that comes close of a reasonable manual at its worst.
      With the exeption Jura, there also seems to be huge reliability issues. I cant remember how many times my Saeco Incanto went in for repairs, but our house became a routine stop on the repairers run to and from work (when Saeco did their own repairs - which they dont any more).
      There are many tales of woe here, and my advice would be to avoid superautos - and Im speaking from experience, having owned the top-of-the-line Saeco. My brother ignored my advice and bought a new one about six months ago, and it has spent more time at the repairer than in his kitchen (and theyve admitted they cant fix it!).
      Hi, thanks for your response. I like good coffee but am probably not as anal as some of this forums members (no disrespect intended!). Since I am a bit lazy and would rather not drink instant, I thought an auto would suit me fine. coincidentally I am looking at the Jura ENA..even though it is about $1300, since we have a Jura Impressa X9 at work!

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      • #4
        Re: Hi All, need help & recommendations on an automatic coffee machine

        Those anal ones arent really fussy enough for my liking.

        The Jura are the only super-autos youll hear get recommended around here.

        Site sponsor Gilkatho has the Jura Ena; you should give them a call.

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        • #5
          Re: Hi All, need help & recommendations on an automatic coffee machine

          Nothing anal about sitting coffeeless while your superauto is on the repair bench (if youre lucky)!
          They simply have too many complicated parts that can - and do - go wrong.
          You may be spared some of that with the Jura, but I wouldnt bet on that.

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          • #6
            Re: Hi All, need help & recommendations on an automatic coffee machine

            A friend who lives in Canada had a Jura doing about 2 or 3 cups a day for 18 months before it broke. Out of warranty and cant be repaired cost effectively. Hes now shopping around again.

            He is also lazy and prefers an average cup of coffee within 30 seconds of pushing a button rather than an excellent cup that requires effort.

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            • #7
              Re: Hi All, need help & recommendations on an automatic coffee machine

              Sounds like he wasnt the type to look after it.

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              • #8
                Re: Hi All, need help & recommendations on an automatic coffee machine

                The machine is supposed to be relatively maintenance free. Every now and then it will tell you to put in a cleaning tablet and run the cycle, which he did do.

                I think it boils down to too much automation requires too many parts which provide too many points of failure.

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                • #9
                  Re: Hi All, need help & recommendations on an automatic coffee machine

                  The problem with super automatics is as much to do with the type of user as the complexity of the machine...

                  Users of Superautos want to walk up and press a button - and everything will work - time after time. They dont want to strip it and clean it themselves... or have it maintained properly by a service agent - they just want coffee!!!

                  They may, occasionally, pop in a cleaning tablet..... but that is just part of the required maintenance regime..... If the rest isnt done.... the machine will become unreliable - and fail!!

                  They require even more maintenance than a semi or an automatic machine - and on a regular basis (because of their complexity this is VERY important).

                  If you buy a superautomatic then you are transferring the maintenance load (and cost) to a service agent in most cases.... and this MUST be done...

                  There is a $$$$$ price to be paid for this level of automation.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Hi All, need help & recommendations on an automatic coffee machine

                    I think it is the level of automation that kills these machines. My area moved to a new floor late last year and the GM decided to buy a new coffee machine - an automatic. One week after buying it, it had an out of order sign on it.

                    To be fair, I have seen two superautos used in a call centre and they seemed to be always working but I think they had someone maintaining them all the time. That was the first time I had ever tried a superauto and even though it was in my pre-CS days, I never felt inclined to go for a second cup. It wasnt awful, just not good.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Hi All, need help & recommendations on an automatic coffee machine

                      Personally, I think the reason a lot of these machines fail is due to inherent laziness.
                      People are happy to use the machine, but most will not even attempt the most basic cleaning or maintenance. And sometimes, even if you want to do the right thing, you cannot.

                      We have recently moved into a new building at work. Each floor has a super duper Azkoyen Expression (which Im sure are not cheap). Its capable of making a decent coffee if you bypass many of the auto settings, however it is often out of action due to various messages on the screen.
                      Some things we cannot do anything about (due to someone taking the odd decision that we cannot be trusted with the cleaning of the machine), but some are very simple tasks that the lazy just ignore.
                      EG: Asking for the dregs tray to be emptied - I have seen people walk up, read the message, press buttons, swear and move on. OR, partially remove the tray, shake it, put it back in and you might get another 1 or 2 coffees before it asks again. the bin is RIGHT NEXT TO IT!
                      The other one is no beans. The hopper sometimes needs refilling or the beans to be agitated a bit. People would rather walk to the floor below than actually try to do something.

                      When fighting this level of laziness, super-autos are doomed to downtime.

                      My brother recently purchased a Delonghi Magnifica (about 5 months ago I think). He saw one at a clients site and liked it, so went and got one. Hes probably done 500+ cups on it now and it hasnt missed a beat. Hes more than happy with the results because he wants the push-button simplicity. He readily admits he likes my coffee more, but would not spend the same time I do making it. He cleans the machine regularly and does not abuse it, so far so good. The client site however, does have issues with theirs because they dont maintain it. He was there one day shortly after buying his and the machine had a message saying descale. He asked one of the workers there what needed to be done and the answer was Turning it off at the wall and turing it on again gets rid of the message.

                      Whee.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Hi All, need help & recommendations on an automatic coffee machine

                        Im fantical about cleaning and changing filters, etc. So I think that blows the "users are lazy" argument out of the water. Case in point: the Saeco Incanto had a design fault on the steamer mechanism. First, they used a plastic one that wore out. Eventually, they replaced it with a brass fitting, but that didnt last - and they didnt tell anyone (there was a free repair for anyone who complained enough). Finally, I believe, they came up with full brass assmebly. That whole process covered the two years and two machines of my Saeco experience. Then there was the grinder set too fine so it choked the machine and needed to be re-assembled. Then there was a plastic bit that was meant to be "finger tightened" and snapped off when using the supplied adjustment tool (Never use that! said the repair guy. So why was it included in the kit and shown in the manual). There were scores of other issues as well - onne of them user-related.
                        Sorry, but I dont think you can simply blame the owners.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Hi All, need help & recommendations on an automatic coffee machine

                          We have a full auto at work, and I reckon its more work than my VBM Piccolo at home. The VBM needs the maintenance every use, (wipe steam wand, flush grounds from head, refill boiler) while the auto needs an intensive hour every 3 weeks (complete take-down and clean).

                          The auto is 2 years old and has been back for repairs or factory-only maintenance 4 or 5 times, and it is now out of warranty.

                          The VBM hasnt left my counter in over a year since it arrived.

                          And the espresso from the VBM is at least twice as good as from the auto!

                          Greg

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                          • #14
                            Re: Hi All, need help & recommendations on an automatic coffee machine

                            Ive said it before somewhere, but i reckon the Seaco Royal Cappuccino is the best auto if that is what you want. Easily adjustable, hasnt changed in years, heaps of service agents, think they still offer two year warranty, parts are readily available. Similar parts in Gaggia, Miele, Spidem. Just stay away from Saecos new machines.

                            Remember to heat your cups before you use any autos or any machine for that matter.

                            James Carter

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                            • #15
                              Re: Hi All, need help & recommendations on an automatic coffee machine

                              i also have a friend determined to buy a fully automatic coffee machine, is the consensus that the Juros are the best class?

                              do they require servicing on a regular basis by an agent? this is not really feasible due to our remote location.

                              we do have very soft water with no scaling whatsoever if that helps.

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