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  • Dimal
    replied
    Re: silvia vs imat mokita

    Originally posted by AlMac link=1130108140/15#27 date=1130398855
    Quaha and Mokita are the same. Fenice is not as it has a 53mm pf, rather than a 57mm. As far as I know....
    Actually AlMac,

    Nemox do have a couple of models based on the Imat/Quaha hardware and probably just slightly up-market than those two.... In that the "Fenice 101" uses all copper tubing for pressure lines where-as the Imat/Quaha tend to use Teflon tubing. Otherwise, theres bugger all difference between the three of them.

    Most of the confusion seems to arise from the use of "Junior" as a model signature. All companies seem to use the name in their individual model line-ups but actually dont correlate in terms of machine specification. Just serves to confuse the issue more than anything else. Heres a look at the Nemox line-up from the importer.... http://tinyurl.com/c936j.

    Alan Frew has posted the inter-relationships of all the various makes and models on CoffeeGeek if you want to see just how muddy the picture is.

    Cheers,
    Mal.

    Leave a comment:


  • AlMac
    replied
    Re: silvia vs imat mokita

    Quaha and Mokita are the same. Fenice is not as it has a 53mm pf, rather than a 57mm. As far as I know....

    Leave a comment:


  • fatboy_1999
    replied
    Re: silvia vs imat mokita

    I do my milk one at a time in the small jug.
    I got into the habit because my wife drinks different milk.
    I do it on full steam and find that the whirlpool goes very well (once I bleed off some wet steam at the start).

    Ive been getting some good art recently (not macchi-art level yet) so Ill try and post some soon for a critique.

    Brett.

    Leave a comment:


  • robusto
    replied
    Re: silvia vs imat mokita

    Personally, I try to avoid steaming more than about 120mL of milk with Silvia at all costs.  Sure, it can do more, but I feel that by far the best results are obtained from the smallest jug.  This is presumably true of all machines in this category.  So I guess that my one new contribution is to say get a 300mL jug.  

    Interesting, Luca. Although most of my steaming is for one cup in the small jug, I prefer to use the larger.
    In the small pitcher you have to release the steam gradually to avoid big bubbles and splatter.... There is more control to be had in the larger

    Leave a comment:


  • Dimal
    replied
    Re: silvia vs imat mokita

    Hi,

    My Imat Mokita definitely has a 3-Way valve to exhaust pressure from the Group when the Brew Switch is turned off. I think there is quite a bit of confusion between the variants sold under the Fenice moniker though... the top model definitely has the 3-Way Valve and all copper internal tubing, but still very crappy Steam Wands (way too short to be useful).

    I think the decision to buy Imat/Fenice or Silvia comes down to what your longer term intentions are really. If you want a machine of this ilk and intend to keep it and use it regularly for many years, then the Silvia would be a hands down winner. If you intend to purchase a "stop gap" machine, then the Imat/Fenice machines are probably more attractive as they are excellent quality specialist domestic machines and allow you to put the money you save on a Silvia purchase towards a future upgrade to a HX or Twin Boiler machine (gotta dream).

    The Silvia is built like the proverbial out-house, basically a scaled down commercial machine. The Imat/Fenice units are more like upgraded domestic machines with non-standard Groups and PortaFilters. With all that having been said though, the Imat/Fenice machines are very capable espresso brewers and once the proper techniques are learned, youll be sure of many excellent shots of coffee, including lattes and cappas, etc. I guess it comes down to spending the extra $250 on a Silvia now, or putting that towards your dream machine of the future. In the end, a pretty tough call that only you can make. All the best,

    Mal.

    Leave a comment:


  • wattgn
    replied
    Re: silvia vs imat mokita

    Oh, my God, what a bloody mess the branding is on these Fenice, Imats whatever. An absolute marketing nightmare.

    After listening to this thread, it just made me realise why people buy Silvias. It a well designed, superbly well built machine and a Silvia is a Silvia and is well recognised.

    I bought my Silvia here in WA for $799 including $50 worth of accessories then sold it three months later for $650 (upgraded to the Bezzera BZ-40P). It served me very well while I had it.

    The resale is excellent for a host of good reasons.

    Grant

    Leave a comment:


  • Fresh_Coffee
    replied
    Re: silvia vs imat mokita

    Hi Maurice,

    quite right. The cheaper nemox machine (called "Junior Espresso" I think) which runs "side by side" in the line up with the others has the pressed stainless steel plate boiler, smaller group ring & corresponding smaller group handle & filters and that is another story again...

    The Caffe Fenice & Mokita are the brass boiler models.

    I think you will find the reference to a "mushroom" valve inside the group head is most probably the usual pressure relief valve found in all these domestic boiler machines....basically a spring loaded ball or "safety valve".

    Regardz,
    FC.

    Leave a comment:


  • luca
    replied
    Re: silvia vs imat mokita

    ... yeah, I reckon that a second-hand IMAT from a coffeesnob + an Iberital would be sensational value. And remember that I own a silvia and a rocky.

    Personally, I try to avoid steaming more than about 120mL of milk with Silvia at all costs. Sure, it can do more, but I feel that by far the best results are obtained from the smallest jug. This is presumably true of all machines in this category. So I guess that my one new contribution is to say get a 300mL jug.

    Cheers,

    Luca

    Leave a comment:


  • mauricem
    replied
    Re: silvia vs imat mokita

    Originally posted by Fresh_Coffee link=1130108140/15#16 date=1130206319
    Mark, Maurice and all.

    I keep hearing in various threads that imat/nemoxes & silvias have the same size (& therefore capacity) boilers fitted....I have both boilers in stock and the silvia boiler is atleast 80 mls bigger by volume than the other. It may not sound like much but in machines this small it is I think, very significant.

    I keep hearing / reading about the imat/nemoxes having solenoid (or 3 way) valves fitted....I cant find any.....they are virtually the same in construction as any other basic domestic boiler machine where coffee is made by the “displacement” method.........it is the silvia and gaggia machines that are differentiated by having a group solenoid valve.

    ,
    FC.
    Hi FC, I understood there were a range of variations over the production life of the nemox including different boiler sizes, filter diameters and 3way valve. I recall Alan Frew describing a stainless boiler of smaller capacity model with a 52mm basket.

    Mine has a brass boiler which looks to be "about" the same size as the silvia one, a 57mm portafiler and no three way valve. I dont know how old it is maybe 3 years or more and it is black finish. It has what was described as a a mushroom valve inside the group head.

    When I list it for sale in a week or so (still got stuff to do on cimbali #2) Ill post some pics if anyone is interested

    Leave a comment:


  • azenis
    replied
    Re: silvia vs imat mokita

    Thanks for all the messages guys, so the Silvia does seem to be the one to go for

    Leave a comment:


  • AlMac
    replied
    Re: silvia vs imat mokita

    I had a Napolitana/Mokita Combi. Unbeatable value. Not as well built as Silvia. If doing it again for the longer term (3 years plus without some sort of upgrading) I would get Silvia and an Iberital grinder (I prefer its worm drive grind adjustment to the Rocky and its clickety click - and it is cheaper and grinds just as well (in fact just as well as my Mazzer Mini).

    I think Silvia is quite a lot better built than Mokita.

    If you cant get budget for Silvia then the Mokita Combi is an excellent option and superb value. If you could get a Mokita non-Combi and the Iberital that would be a better way to go - not a fan of built in grinders as it limits the upgrade path and usefulness of one compenent if the other breaks down.

    Leave a comment:


  • paulie338
    replied
    Re: silvia vs imat mokita

    Hi, Id like to add my two cents worth too.. Ive had the Silvia for less than two weeks, having upgraded from a Breville Cafe Roma.. there are some major major differences between these two machines that I think might help you. I was after a machine that I could create consistent espresso for up to 6 cups per sitting, this was not at all feasible with a thermoblock machine. The steaming ability of the Silvia is amazing.. Ill take you through my process so you can get an idea of the ins and outs of the machine..

    Prep: Lets assume that the water tank has been topped up and the boiler has been filled the last time the machine was used.

    I turn the Silvia on as early as I can, meaning I prefer that the machine has been on for a minimum of about 30 minutes before I do anything. Make sure the portafiller is attached to the machine to get it up to temp. Next, I switch the coffee on (with no coffee) and draw some hot water through the group and portafiller, one to heat the group and portafiller further and two to start heating the cups ready for extraction. I then throw the cups in the microwave and set it to go on high for 2 minutes.

    Now, remove the portafiller and dose one heaped spoon of coffee into the double filter basket. Scales would be nice to get this perfect but I dont have that luxury. Tamp the coffee evenly (I find this crucial to a good extraction). Replace the portafiller into the group. Remove the cups from the microwave and dry them well. Place them under the spouts switch on the coffee switch and the steam switch. I switch on the steam switch at the same time so I dont have to wait as long for the boiler to get to steam temp. While the coffee is being extracted, lately this is taking 45 seconds for my grind (which I like because its a very very dark extraction), I grab my pitcher from the fridge (important that its cold) and half fill it with milk which is enough for 2 cappacinos. Ok, switch off the coffee switch when done. Im usually waiting a further 20-30 seconds for the steam light to switch off. Once it does, I bleed the steam into water until the light comes back on. Then swap pitchers (to the one with milk) and start frothing. It usually takes me about 60 seconds or so (roughly) to double the volume of the milk and the Silvia creates great foam. It took me a bit to get used to but now.. AWESOME..

    I did a lot of reading and found that the Silvia had a lot of advantages over the other popular machines, I wont even try and name them all but my point is hammered home in one go when you think about how much information is available on the Silvia. I seriously see that alone as the most important advantage. For instance, a large percentage of the snobs & geeks own Silvias and if you experience any sort of trouble, there is always someone out there that has had a similar problem and are willing to share their experiences..

    My advice to you is to do as much reading as you can and decide what features you need and how much money you have to spend then compare the machines available.. also, grinders... a lot of people wont agree with me here but I have found a grind at a local roaster that is perfect for my machine.. I go to the same roaster and get them to use the same grind setting on the same grinder each time.. consistency is possible without your own grinder!!!

    Good luck!!
    Paulie

    Leave a comment:


  • Fresh_Coffee
    replied
    Re: silvia vs imat mokita

    Mark, Maurice and all.

    The IMAT mokita & NEMOX caffe fenice are virtually an identical machine. I have plenty of nemox but no imats in the showroom at the moment so will be happy to defer   to imat owners on the score of the steam pipe. I guess the steam pipes as fitted to each are different, it’s not every day you go unscrewing turbofrother attachments to have a look inside…thanks for your input on the imat Maurice.

    But there are a couple of other points that dont make sense to me, and for your information:

    I keep hearing in various threads that imat/nemoxes & silvias have the same size (& therefore capacity) boilers fitted....I have both brass boilers in stock and the silvia boiler is atleast 80 mls bigger by volume than the other. It may not sound like much but in machines this small it is I think, very significant.

    I keep hearing / reading about the imat/nemoxes having solenoid (or 3 way) valves fitted....I cant find any.....they are virtually the same in construction as any other basic domestic boiler machine where coffee is made by the “displacement” method.........it is the silvia and gaggia machines that are differentiated by having a group solenoid valve.


    Regardz,
    FC.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sparky
    replied
    Re: silvia vs imat mokita

    I believe that the two machines under consideration have 3-way valves for rapid operation and similar boiler volumes (300 ml), and both are brass boilers. The real differnece is that the Silvia uses a commercial 58 mm portafilter, and so can use aftermarket filter baskets. But this may never be a concern. The Silvias portafilter is also heavier. As for the steam wand, the Silvias is probably the best in this class of machine. Contact Mal on this forum about the steam wand, as he has a Mokita.

    Otherwise, read the reviews of these machines and their plusses and minuses here:
    http://www.coffeeco.com.au/articles/july2002.html
    and here,
    http://www.coffeeco.com.au/articles/comparison.html

    Thats about as much information as anyone is going to give you.

    The Silvia is clearly the more robust machine with a very good resale value. However, you really do need a grinder capable of grinding fine enough and uniformly enough for good espresso. A good domestic grinder comparison is found here,

    http://www.coffeeco.com.au/articles/september2002.html

    I use a Gaggia MDF, which does the job quite well. I do want to upgrade, but not because the grinder is not capable, but for other reasons that dont affect the coffee. The MDF can be had for $250 if you can drive a bargain, which is the same price as the Lux. Generally, you can find a suitable grinder for around $300.

    Leave a comment:


  • mauricem
    replied
    Re: silvia vs imat mokita

    Originally posted by Fresh_Coffee link=1130108140/0#12 date=1130195468
    Gentlemen,

    The mokita and its virtually identical running partner the caffe fenice are excellent domestic machines but as far as I am aware they have a turbo frother. The turbo frother end cant be removed ( if you do, as far as I know you are left with a dirty great big hole about 1/4 inch in diameter and you certainly wont get any froth with that) so if you are looking for the holy grail of froth (micro froth) these models are basically no good to you because they tend to entrain air and bubble up the froth....


    Regardz,
    FC.
    My napoletana came with a turbo frother but once removed the steam tip is the same diameter as the one on my silvia was and makes effortless microfoam. As I didnt buy new its possible the part had been changed at some stage but the internals look the same as the pics of new ones posted elsewhere.

    Leave a comment:

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