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Upgrade-itis....overcompensating?

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  • Upgrade-itis....overcompensating?

    I have been agonising over which machine to buy as I am upgrading from my saeco via vanezia. I have poured over countless reviews, read about hundreds of machines and the final choice came down to the Silvia, La Scala Butterfly, Expobar Office SA and the Office E61 Leva. I have managed a good deal on the E61 and an Iberital Challenge grinder (was going to get a Rocky but read great reviews on the Challenge). I am just curious how other people have felt after they bought their new upgraded machine.

    I make about 20 - 25 cups of coffee a week and I think that would justify buying a HX machine. I love my coffee but I guess I am curious if the difference between a HX machine and a consumer quality machine is worth the price. My house is the regular meeting place for all my friends and waiting for the steam to build has been agony when making 5 chinos in a row. Anyone else been in this situation? Is the HX the answer or just an overcompensation / overkill?

  • #2
    Re: Upgrade-itis....overcompensating?

    Sam,

    I reckon if you can afford the HX go for it. You will never regret it. I have had my Diadema for nearly a year now and it has been an absolute joy to use. It really comes into its own though when friends arrive - endless amounts of steam, consistently good espresso and easy to use.

    One word of advice - buy from a good dealer. When I picked up my machine I got a three hour lesson that Im sure saved me hours of headache trying to work things out for myself!

    Good luck,

    Rob

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    • #3
      Re: Upgrade-itis....overcompensating?

      Thanks for the reply Rob. I am located in North QLD so buying from a good local dealer is an impossibility for me. I have found the price varies from $1585 - $2200 depending who you buy it from. Because Ill have to teach myself I have opted for the cheaper seller so I can afford the beans to get things right.

      As for the friends, a mate bought me a nice framed blackboard for my kitchen that has a menu of the coffees and cakes (thanks to my lovely wife) that they all enjoy at my place. I am hoping that the HX will save some time and effort so I can enjoy coffee WITH my friends rather than AFTER they have drank theirs.

      Just a question though, is the steam from an HX machine drier than from single boiler machines? I have the problem with my saeco that the steam is very wet and I need to drain the water for the first 2 seconds before I get good steam.

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      • #4
        Re: Upgrade-itis....overcompensating?

        Welcome to the wonderful world of HX Samthedog.

        Just a question though, is the steam from an HX machine drier than from single boiler machines? I have the problem with my saeco that the steam is very wet and I need to drain the water for the first 2 seconds before I get good steam.
        Steam will condense back into water in the steaming tube/tip between uses on all machines. This is not a defect but simply physics having its way.

        As the steaming tube cools after use its temperature drops until it is cool enough to cause the steam inside of it to condense back into water which then fills the tube/tip of the tube. This is why its important to purge the steam line every time prior to frothing your milk. This is the case whether you own a $100 Sunbeam or a $20,000 La Cimbali and is nothing to be concerned over.

        Java "Loves a good steamer" phile
        Toys! I must have new toys!!!

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        • #5
          Re: Upgrade-itis....overcompensating?

          20-25 coffees more than justifies it. Its not just the volume but also the enjoyment of using a quality piece of machinery to produce your favourite brew - that IMHO is justification alone even if you only made one coffee a day.

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          • #6
            Re: Upgrade-itis....overcompensating?

            Hehehe, thanks for the replies. Ill let my wife read this to further calm her nerves about this decision. I am still relatively new to coffee making and am wondering about how to get the grind right. Is timing it the best way? I know most people say that 25 - 30 seconds for extraction is the go. I usually use particle size as my guide (but then again I use a crappy sunbeam blade grinder much to my shame) and the sound my "blender" / grinder makes changes when the particles reach the desired size.

            Also, I keep reading that Expobar machines run hot/cold and that most people adjust their pstat. If anyone has experience in this could you please pm me with some brief details on this process? Much obliged.
            I hope my machine wont need fiddling but I guess thats half the fun to having this kind of toy.

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            • #7
              Re: Upgrade-itis....overcompensating?

              I usually use particle size as my guide (but then again I use a crappy sunbeam blade grinder much to my shame) and the sound my "blender" / grinder makes changes when the particles reach the desired size.
              You will have to extend your upgrade-itis to your grinder. A good burr grinder makes a world of difference.

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              • #8
                Re: Upgrade-itis....overcompensating?

                I came across somewhere a machine with an "insulated" steam wand. Actually, its a tube within a tube, primarily designed, I guess, to minimise milk being baked on the hot surface.

                As to whether it would minimise condensation...?

                But purging water from the wand is always a good idea. Hot water is a terrible frothing medium!

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                • #9
                  Re: Upgrade-itis....overcompensating?

                  LOL, yeah I am buying an Iberital Challenge grinder with the Expobar which will be nice. I am only too happy to retire the blade grinder and get a burr grinder.

                  I have just put the order in for the Expobar E61 Office Leva and the Iberital grinder. Will be getting it on Monday......man Im going to be wired on Monday night!!!! ;D

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                  • #10
                    Re: Upgrade-itis....overcompensating?

                    Originally posted by AlMac link=1134470131/0#4 date=1134489716
                    20-25 coffees more than justifies it. Its not just the volume but also the enjoyment of using a quality piece of machinery to produce your favourite brew - that IMHO is justification alone even if you only made one coffee a day.
                    Oh I dunno?

                    Thats about the same average consumption in our household and my little Mokita handles that ok without too much stress on my sensibilities or the Mokitas.... and most of those drinks are lattes, cappas or piccolos.

                    Mind you, if I had the money or the opportunity to get hold of a good single group semi-commercial for a price within my meagre budget, Id be in to it like a duck shot in the bum..... but until such time as the Gods smile upon my good fortune either way, me and my little Mokita will continue to plug along quite happily 8-),

                    Cheers,
                    Mal.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Upgrade-itis....overcompensating?

                      I find the Iberital grinder personally, to work very well with an ECM giotto. It is just a pain finding the right grind setting for your coffee beans and coffee machine.

                      However once the correct grind setting has been found. You are ready to rock and roll.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Upgrade-itis....overcompensating?

                        sam, how have you found expobar leva?? This is pretty much the exact set up I am thinking of getting after the christmas rush. Have you had any problems or has it been smooth sailing all the way?? I guess I am in the same position you were in - is it worth the upgrade - would love to hear your opinion now.
                        Regards,
                        Mal.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Upgrade-itis....overcompensating?

                          One of the reasons why youre better off buying the best machine you can (or cant) afford is the fact that you wont continue on the upgradeitis spiral.  Every time you SEE, let alone use a high end machine you feel good, and if you have other good quality items in your kitchen or house, it complements them.  Another great thing about a machine like the Giotto is that it weighs so much you dont have to steady the machine with one hand while you rotate the portafilter to stop it jumping around.
                          All machines used properly will make decent coffee, but theres something special about using a good grinder and machine in combination.  When I bought my Giotto and ECM (Anfim) Best grinder, I never for a second thought that it was overkill for what I want it for.  I know for a fact that if I had bought something else, it would have been sold the day after I saw a quality HX machine in the flesh.  The "look and feel" can not be beaten.  If you took a purely pragmatic approach, youd probably go for the Silvia Rocky combo, because it is obviously the equal of most high end machines in most practical semses.  BUT.....if you have the spare cash, the Mercedes Benz might save you money in the long term because you can keep it for as long as you want to.  Having said that, Hyundais and Hondas are fantastic at what they do and at the price. The worst thing you can do is have to deal with that feeling a few weeks aor months after the purchase that youd LIKE something a little better, even though you know it DOES the same thing.  Be governed in equal parts by your wallet and your sense of aesthetics.  The brain has an input, but it is usually incompatible with what you really want and your knowledge of how youve behaved in the past with purchases such as this.  Ask any hi-fi nut and youll know what Im talking about.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Upgrade-itis....overcompensating?

                            hmmm ... if the giotto is a Merc, then the expobar office pulser must be a mitsubishi sigma, but the only upgrade lust Im feeling isnt for a giotto, its for more of a hobby machine, like something old and classic to restore one day, and run in the garage/mad scientist lab.

                            Has anyone seen Paul Pratts website? ( http://www.espresso-restorations.com/ )I can be distracted all day by the work he does restoring old La Marzoccos. Thats what I covet.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Upgrade-itis....overcompensating?

                              I think that I should represent the opposite point of view, if for no other reason than for the sake of balance.

                              With all due respect to el espressio, I can certainly assert that I am not a victim of the Upgrade-itis syndrome. I have a Silvia and a Mazzer grinder. While theres no upgrade room above the Mazzer, I have never felt anything less than satisfied with my Silvia.

                              From my very limited experience with semi-commercial machines I would certainly agree that they are easier to use, and have a lovely solid look-&-feel. But the only test of any validity, in my opinion, is in the taste of the resulting coffee. The rest is just garnish.

                              I cant say that the espresso that I have tasted from larger HX machines are superior to the espresso I produce from my Silvia. So I can hardly say that I feel the need to upgrade.

                              What I am saying is this - Upgrade-itis Syndrome is not inevitable for all, but is an individual thing. For those who are trying to decide what to buy, I would suggest that you examine your own individual style and preference. If you are given to Upgrade-itis in other aspects of your life, then a semi-commercial machine is the one for you. If you are pragmatic (as I am), then the only determinant for the buying decision is the quality of the end result - the coffee.

                              I would only recommend an HX machine under two conditions:
                              1. You drink mainly milk-based drinks, in which case it is really handy to be able to steam milk and brew coffee at the same time.
                              2. You often prepare multiple coffees within a short span of time. Boiler based machines are best suited for the occassional coffee or two, rather than frequent use.

                              I should state that I offer this post in only the most respectful manner, and I wish only to offer an alternate view to prospective buyers of espresso equipment.

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