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  • #16
    Re: Which Machine-very new

    Originally posted by CoffeeMugs link=1094167848/15#25 date=1097572229
    I bet a humble $650 Silvia can out brew (Quality of shot) most super autos. For Rocky and Silvia and base your looking at $1100 - $1200 beats $1895 for a Jura Impressa E85
    .

    Rich
    Rich,

    Youre spot on. As someone who owns both a superauto (Gaggia Syncrony) and a decent manual machine (Brasilia Lady), Ill confirm that theres no competition between the two. If all youve ever tried is a superauto, then it seems very good, but once youve tried using a Sylvia type machine, the stuff that comes out of the superauto is like dishwater - thin, pale and a yellow crema that dissipates in 20 secs, and no amount of playing with the grind fineness and dosage settings makes it much better. Having said that, the Syncrony is very convenient, but we find ourselves using it less and less nowadays. (Not to mention that its currently in for its 4th repair in a year). If I were starting again today, Id definately look at spending the funds on something like an Expobar HX machine and decent grinder.

    Regards,
    Phil

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    • #17
      Re: Which Machine-very new

      As stated earlier... I have no fondness for Super Autos either :-/

      Friends of ours have a Saeco Magic (think thats the one). 2 grands worth of plastic and garbage. The shots seem to come out, how should I put this... Very aerated with almost a carbonated character. Id suspect some sort of crema ehancing devices are at work here? This is the face I try to supress whilst drinking the shot... :-X :-X :-X

      They always seem to think that Im trying to provide some sort of one-upmanship when I pull a couple of shots from the Imat and they come out with a full body and normal crema. Though as all of you know this is pretty much expected to be the norm for all of us.

      It would kill them to know that you can provide superior shots on about $500 worth of equipment. Say a Starbucks or Lux grinder and a Carezza.

      Cant convince them to use fresh beans because they fall under the $10 per kilo from the market adage.

      Oh their reason for buying the auto?? They have to make more than six shots a day. Phhhttttt!

      Warren -

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      • #18
        Re: Which Machine-very new

        In all Fairness Warren, When we all first started out (well some of us at least) knew nothing of the coffee process, and I am certainly one of these. I scough at the machines as well, I own a Saeko Royal professional and this is a very very good unit, however, If I still knew nothing of coffee I would insist that the machine id everything that I want, It steams, Froths milk, and makes a decent espresso and indeed it does, but to compare it to a semi commercial machine would be like comparing a Utility to a Four wheel drive, you just cant do it, Both of them are built to do totaly different jobs, just as the Semi Autos are designed to lure people into processing their own coffee, I think the machines are good if people are happy to have fresh roasted and a machine do the rest for them, At least it starts them on their road to Coffee appreciation. Knowing what I know now I would say that I wouldnt have an Auto, but hindsight is a great thing, but there are a heck of a lot of them being sold here in Australia and overseas as well, so thats indicates that their are a lot of people who are going to learn what coffee really is and I think that its a good thing. Everything has its place, Autos at least introduce people to REAL coffee and isnt that what its all about?..... Thats my twenty one cents worth.

        FB

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        • #19
          Re: Which Machine-very new

          As I said earlier, I had one and still do, but our Boema is the prefered machine, thus we in this house have been converted, However I must admit there wasnt much chance of me at the time saying that I wished I had got a Semi-commercial machine instead..... Too embassed to admit it and had to live with what I had untill something else came up.

          I suppose it all comes down to education doesnt it. But at least the (dare I say) Instant coffee has a place now....... The BIN

          FB ;D

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Which Machine-very new (me too)

            Originally posted by Brian link=1094167848/0#9 date=1096435688
            Hi,

            This is my first post on this website.

            My query is along same lines as very first post of the forum (OzyChris?). I have been offerred a ECM Giotto, 2yrs old used at home by a couple.

            The price offerred to me is $1,500.

            The question is, if the machine has been looked after (maintained), is the asking price reasonable?

            Ive tried the ECM Giotta back-to-back with a commercial ECM and the ECM Botticelli II. I ended up purchasing the Botticelli, as it produced coffee easily as good as the Giotta and almost indistinguishable from the commerical ECM machine.

            I paid $1080, 10% off RRP as it was their demo model.

            Im now very happy with the machine - like any machine it took ages to get it working optimally, made more complicated that I also bought the Isomac Granmachinato grinder, so I had beans + tamp + quantity as 3 variables to get used to...

            As another post says, the Giotta takes a while to heat up. Its also big. Best advantage is that its a heat exchanger machine, so you can get steam instantly (after the long warm-up period).

            At $1500 its probably a good buy, but having paid $1400 for my grinder plus the Botticelli II, I would take that over the Giotta.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Which Machine-very new

              David,

              what did you see as the advantages of the Botticelli over the Silvia?
              Obviously the temp/pressure? gauge is a nice feature but both are single boiler machines.

              The Botticelli certainly looks more stylish and less industrial but were there functional differences? Just curious!

              Maurice

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              • #22
                Re: Which Machine-very new

                Originally posted by mauricem link=1094167848/15#20 date=1099889505
                David,

                what did you see as the advantages of the Botticelli over the Silvia?
                Obviously the temp/pressure? gauge is a nice feature but both are single boiler machines.

                The Botticelli certainly looks more stylish and less industrial but were there functional differences? Just curious!

                Maurice
                Maurice,

                Could be wrong here but I think that the ECM Botticelli II is a HX machine. Allows you to brew and steam at the same time. ???

                If David snagged it for around a grand he got a bargain IMO.

                Warren -

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Which Machine-very new

                  As an ex owner of a Rancilio Silvia I can say that it is capable of making coffee almost as good as my ECM Giotto, but it is a lot of hard work to achieve that result and it is not a family friendly machine by any stretch of the imagination.

                  It will certainly beat the pants of any of the Saeco auto type machines and has very good steam pressure for foaming milk. The Silvia is the best of the low end machines IMO before moving into heat exchanger based gear. That involves a big jump in price.

                  Going back to the original question that was asked, it is most important to buy a good grinder like the Rocky doserless for ~$400 and start with a low end machine like a Gaggia to keep your initial spend down.

                  When you outgrow the Gaggia you can buy a better machine but the grinder will still be an excellent match. Indeed the Rocky is a good match for any domestic machine and has good spare parts support.

                  I sold my Silvia after eighteen months because I wanted more reliable results with less effort and the ability to make consistently good cup after cup after cup after cup after cup...

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                  • #24
                    Re: Which Machine-very new

                    I started with a Krups heat pump and used pre-ground coffee. It produced coffee slightly better than plunging but was not something that ever produced commercial quality.

                    My first (MAJOR!!) improvement was getting a good quality grinder (Gaggia MDF). Suddenly, I had an excellent crema and better taste. I have only one rule: Only grind what you are about to use!

                    A few months later I purchased a 25yo Rancilio single group machine (with the lever on the top for $200 plus $90 for new seals and a check-over. This machine required plumbing into the water supply, so a committment was required from me as to wheere to site it. Warm-up is 12 mins from cold.

                    For sometime I could not reproduce the crema of the Krups, but the flavour was better. My grind went from setting 16 to 6, so i was getting better extraction from the finer grind. After a couple of months, some support from the snobs, and about 8kgs of coffee, I am getting an excellent, and consistent, cappucino.

                    These machines are acknowledged as being a bit fickle, and I need to change the grind slightly on a daily basis, but I now love this machine and the challenge of working with it. (Oh, and frothing milk? takes about 20 seconds and it is soooo light and bubbly.)

                    So maybe think about a s/h commercial machine?? They are $500-$1000 on eBay and Trading Post, and less at auctions.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Which Machine-very new

                      Ive had my Silvia for 2 weeks now and havent looked back!
                      I made my choice after much pondering and surfing (the guys and gals on this site are great and know their stuff)

                      The Silvia may cost a little bit more than other brands/\/models that have similar features, but it makes excellent (repeatably) coffee and has class. Even my wife who is now owed many thousands of favours (I even gave her my favourite sunnies) thinks it looks great in the kitchen and is willing to spend "more" money on a Rocky. ;D

                      Ive got my first load of greens on the way (once Ive paid) and am heading out to Big-W for a colander and Bunnings for my Ozito flame thrower on the weekend.

                      Ive not had this much fun in years (spending money is fun isnt it?)

                      Mick

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                      • #26
                        Re: Which Machine-very new

                        [split] [link=http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1249716541/10#10][splithere][/link][splithere_end]

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