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$2000 - $2500... what would you choose?

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  • chrisk
    replied
    Re: $2000 - $2500... what would you choose?

    after much research into every model i could find at around that price range, (and the 9600 which was great value for money), i narrowed it down to two. the giotto or the diadema, but in the end, the look of the giotto edged the decision.

    very happy so far despite the niggling annoyances i have with it. i think if you buy a machine at that price the performance is going to be very similar across the board and it all comes down to your, (or in my case, the WIFES), personal preference based on aesthetics.

    .

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  • wattgn
    replied
    Re: $2000 - $2500... what would you choose?

    I would never buy a machine without having a good look under the bonnet!

    Somebody told me. I dont know if it is true or not, but that the Giotto uses teflon tubing internally. I would find this hard to believe mind you as anything under pressure, especially with steam, needs to be copper for safety reasons. it is ok with cold water lines and air lines.

    I like Alan Frews approach. He is like me, he wants to know what the machine is made of under the bonnet. He dissected the Butterfly (as it were) and I was impressed with the insides of the machine. If you get a good machine like this and good service backup, you cant go wrong.

    If you are spending that much you could get something brand new like the Bezzera BZ-35 with a rotary pump. I have the BZ-40 which has the bigger 3.4L boiler. The BZ-40 sells for about $3190 full retail.

    I personally go for practicality. ie plumbe in for convenience. Space under the machine for cleaning spills and keeping the bench clean. Plenty of room on top for cups etc.

    I have just got my second hand Bezzera up and running so Im still finding my feet. Strangely the thing I like most is just the temperature profile. You dont have to purge all the time to keep the temperature down. High temperature will ruin a shot of coffee totally.

    Grant

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  • Dill
    replied
    Re: $2000 - $2500... what would you choose?

    Could the average punter, No. Could an expert yes.

    I like the Cimbali or Faema. Never pay RRP.

    Dill


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  • Dr.GTD
    replied
    Re: $2000 - $2500... what would you choose?

    kanaage,
    Good point. Another reason why I would be tempted to buy an HX machine is that I would like to cut down on the time taken to make a milk-based drink.
    I have a Silvia, and I find it great - although there is still some variability in quality which *could* come down to temperature. I am afraid to say that it is probably more likely to (gasp) human error! I have never used an HX, so I cant comment.
    I must say though - I am still keen to see what some people have to say about the basket size. Is temperature variability minimal when considered next to the basket size issue between Silivas and "prosumers"?

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  • kaanage
    replied
    Re: $2000 - $2500... what would you choose?

    IME, ease of use is the big advantage of the prosumer (or semi-commercial as one poster insists) machines vs the dual purpose boiler ones since they are more temp stable. This makes it easier to get that best shot out of the machines (and the commercial HX machines have a similar but lesser advantage over their prosumer brethren).

    Greg

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  • Dr.GTD
    replied
    Re: $2000 - $2500... what would you choose?

    Pinot,
    re: side by side comparison of Silvia v E61 machine WRT shot quality
    You mentioned that to tell the difference you should use the baskets that come with the machines. In an articale by Alan Frew (http://www.coffeegeek.com/opinions/alanfrew/05-24-2003) an argument is put forward that the difference between expensive machines and cheap machines comes down almost entirely to the basket size (when considering shot quality alone) - that is, if you put the larger basket in the Silvia, its difficult to distinguish between the machines. I understand that there are plenty of other reasons to get an expensive machine, but I would be interested to get your take on this particular aspect.
    What do you think? If you used identical baskets - could you tell the difference?

    Leave a comment:


  • chopinhauer
    replied
    Re: $2000 - $2500... what would you choose?

    Thanks Pinot,
    Looking forward to seeing the two machines in action side by side. Ill contact you in early May.
    Robert

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  • GR8WineandCoffee
    replied
    Re: $2000 - $2500... what would you choose?

    C
    May is not a problem.
    Give me a call when you are ready to purchase and we can set up a time.
    John

    Leave a comment:


  • chopinhauer
    replied
    Re: $2000 - $2500... what would you choose?

    Hey Pinot,

    Id be VERY interested in seeing the Diadema Junior Lever versus Giotto Premium comparison as these are the two machines I am most interested in stepping up to.

    For me, the catch is timing, since I wouldnt be able to do it before May 3.



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  • GR8WineandCoffee
    replied
    Re: $2000 - $2500... what would you choose?

    On the $2-2.5 k machines.
    For any interested parties I am open to doing a demo/comparison of the Diadema Junior or Splendor v. Giotto. These machines are all lever operated.
    To me they are all excellent machines and the end choice would come down to the purchaser. As mentioned in previous posts, I would be happy to have either one on my kitchen bench. They both make excellent espresso and do a pretty good job at the milk texturing.

    JD you said:
    "In addition... all things being equal... could your average punter recognise the difference between a shot from a Silvia and one from a $2000 + machine?"

    In a side by side comparison using the standard basket that comes with the Silvia and the basket that come with say, the Diadema or Giotto, then the average punter looking at the pour would see a difference between the machines.
    The Silvia does a pretty awsome job for its price. I always enjoy using her. I actually used the Silvia instead of my commercial machine over the weekend to make my shots.

    However, when you step up to the $2k mark you would expect a lot more. And I believe you do get it. The extraction on the Diadema or Giotto is different to the Silvia.
    I have done the side by side comparison a number of times. Using the same bean, grinder, dosing and tamping method. Although the Silvia extraction is excellent, in comparison it is a little thinner and not as full in body. The crema is usually also a little lighter. This difference is also reflected in the taste.

    John

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  • Javaphile
    replied
    Re: $2000 - $2500... what would you choose?

    Originally posted by Andy Freeman link=1113217910/30#36 date=1113837421

    ...the willingness to put up with our madness is in direct relationship to the thickness of wallet spent on "our toys" which is proportional to the amount you are expected to splurge on her next birthday.

    (Unless of course you can justify buying her the toy as a present, thus saving you spending double.)


    If you can convince her that your new toy is actually the perfect present for her then you should get the Salesman of the Year award!! ;D ;D ;D

    Java "Hhhmmm...New toys are good to have!" phile

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  • Andy
    replied
    Re: $2000 - $2500... what would you choose?

    ...the thickness of ones wallet and the willingness of ones Significant other to put up with our madness
    ...the willingness to put up with our madness is in direct relationship to the thickness of wallet spent on "our toys" which is proportional to the amount you are expected to splurge on her next birthday.

    (Unless of course you can justify buying her the toy as a present, thus saving you spending double.)

    Leave a comment:


  • kaanage
    replied
    Re: $2000 - $2500... what would you choose?

    water quality, depth/diameter of basket...

    Beans come in somewhere, dont they? :P

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  • Javaphile
    replied
    Re: $2000 - $2500... what would you choose?

    Fineness of the grind, consistancy of the grind, hardness of the tamp, concave or flat tamper, and probably most importantly, the thickness of ones wallet and the willingness of ones Significant other to put up with our madness!! ;D

    Java "Wishing his wallet were thicker" phile

    Leave a comment:


  • FrenchBean
    replied
    Re: $2000 - $2500... what would you choose?

    Kaanage what about adding "Practicality"?

    FB

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