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Thermoblock versus Boiler

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  • #31
    Re: Thermoblock versus Boiler


    I think Javaphile gave some excellent examples. TB designs can easily do the job.

    Lets just sit back and see how the actual machine performs. It doesnt seem too shabby at the moment. A mate who is wanting to upgrade is waiting for Alan Frews verdict. He says hell go with it if it can hold its temperature to within 2 deg C during a shot. Otherwise hell save some more and go with a HX machine.

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    • #32
      Re: Thermoblock versus Boiler

      I agree Sparky.
      Cannot wait to see the results.
      Hopefully, itll show how good the new Sunbeam is.
      But as I am sipping my own extraction form said machine, I dont need any tests to tell me how good it is. It is by far the best TB machine out there, and at worst, it has clearly closed the gap between the small boiler and HX machines like the Silvia, etc. If one needs something substancially better then it, one now needs something that costs around 4 times the Sunbeam.

      Arent we lucky to have all these choices?
      Arent we lucky that companies like Sunbeam are striving to make better machines at affordable prices so that more of us can enjoy a good coffee?
      Arent we lucky that we can spend less money on the machine and spend more on buying other accessories like a roaster, grinder, or more beans and so end up with better brew in our cups?
      We are getting very spoilt indeed.
      We have to welcome new products.

      I have personally introduced many people to good coffee by showing them or buying them cheap TB machines and who now are working up to better and better machines. Lots of them will be able afford this new Sunbeam and will reach new heights in their effort to strive for a better brew, and they wont even have to give up conveniences that a Silvio has to go without to keep its price down.

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      • #33
        Re: Thermoblock versus Boiler

        I give up Monti. I wasnt being rude and Im not duped by people who accuse others of rudeness in order to silence their opinions.

        You obviously love your Sunbeam, and love is blind. Im off to my local coffee shops to tell all the baristas to buy thermoblocks

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        • #34
          Re: Thermoblock versus Boiler

          Originally posted by ShortBlack link=1118073813/30#32 date=1121298569
          I give up Monti.  I wasnt being rude and Im not duped by people who accuse others of rudeness in order to silence their opinions.

          You obviously love your Sunbeam, and love is blind.  Im off to my local coffee shops to tell all the baristas to buy thermoblocks  
          You were very derogative in your posts towards me, indeed. I am asking you, nicely, to stop doing it.
          I am not about silencing anyones opinions. I welcome all opinions (including yours), but there is a way to do it with manners without bullying people. Get off your high horse and join in the conversation with enthusiasm but with respect to others. I have done nothing to hurt anyones feelings here other than having, maybe, a different oppinion on the machine.

          Cheers

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          • #35
            Re: Thermoblock versus Boiler

            Monti:

            Yes, phew a bit hot in here!

            It is just a stupid machine. I mean whatever we argue about, we, the members are the forum.

            It is good though really that we have something to argue about.

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            • #36
              Re: Thermoblock versus Boiler


              Ive been thinking.... tinker mode on.... Id bet that if you got two thermoblocks and joined then together, the temperature stability during a shot would rival that from a HX and at 1/10 the price.

              Add some tight temperature control to the second thermoblock and you could dial in your desired temperature. Only problem would be sourcing a decent group/PF combo... Maybe an old Gaggia group/PF... I might have a check on ebay... ;D

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              • #37
                Re: Thermoblock versus Boiler

                Monti:

                We could settle the debate about temperature stability over about 30 minutes with a thermocouple dipped in your portafilter.

                The lovely thing about temperature measurements is that it is just so OBJECTIVE. The evidence, whether you like it or not, is incontovertible.

                It is like the old race adage, "when the flag drops, the bullshit stops"

                The Silvia is not a perfect machine and I now have a warts and all understanding of my machine and how it works.

                The Sunbeam is still unexplored but this will change over the next few weeks. If it were to be shown that the temp variation is in the range of just a few degrees over a shot and close to the target temp of about 94C then you would find that this machine would be on Geeks buying lists. If more than this then I would say it will be off the Geeks buying list but may still garner some respect depending. If it is more than say 5 degrees variation then it will be "Sayonara Sunbeam".

                It will all be over quite quickly, one way or another, when it happens.

                Grant

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                • #38
                  Re: Thermoblock versus Boiler

                  I think a lot of us geeks live very sheltered lives. I believe most people who buy coffee machines dont know how to operate them and are more interested in a design that fits in with their kitchen decor. How many people would know how many degrees their brew water varies? Before I shoved a thermocouple into a Gaggia, most people assumed that they were temperature stable. Im sure Gaggias sales wont suffer now that the cat is out of the bag. In fact I like the look of my Classic. I think it looks better than the Silvia, even though it doesnt perform to the same high standards. How many people dont think past that point?

                  Stock every DJ and Meyers with a $600 machine that steams and brews at the same time. Add to that that it looks good, has lots of nifty features... It will out sell the Gaggia Classic on function and maybe looks. The only thing Gaggia has going for it is its name and reputation, and if youre new to espresso, then it doesnt even have that.

                  I believe that Sunbeam employ marketing people to identify a market niche and aim their machine at that level. Im sure theyre not aiming at us coffee geeks, but theyre not far off.

                  One last thought. When people upgrade their Silvias to HX machines, its usually because the Silvia cant make milk based drinks fast enough. It looks like the little $600 Sunbeam has that one sown up. Being more than $400 cheaper than the cheapest deal on a new HX machine. Id say they have some market niche. The purported performance doesnt even have to be true, it just has to be propagated by the people selling the machines.

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                  • #39
                    Re: Thermoblock versus Boiler

                    Originally posted by wattgn link=1118073813/30#36 date=1121313444
                    Monti:

                    We could settle the debate about temperature stability over about 30 minutes with a thermocouple dipped in your portafilter.
                    I am sure many are already doing the testing out there. We are just going to have to wait, I guess. I do hope that they are doing it properly not like that test on coffeegeek where someone just stuffs a huge styrofoam cup under the showerhead and puts a temperature measuring lead through the side of the cup, with the cup jacked up underneath. He is measuring the temp at a flow speed, volume, distance, pressure., etc, that is irrelevant and doesnt reflect conditions that are present when actually extracting coffee.

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                    • #40
                      Re: Thermoblock versus Boiler

                      Probably the wrong thread, this should probably be in the other argument about thermoblocks, but what the heck ...

                      I saw the sunbeam today, in the flesh. Whats with the plastic inside the portafilter? Other than that, it looked nice ... but I must confess, I saw it after an hour or two playing with a dual-boiler expobar brewtus (one of three in Australia) at Forsyths in Naremburn ... the sunbeam just didnt compare with two boilers, PID, E-61 group head ...

                      That said, the brewtus will be $1400 more ...

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                      • #41
                        Re: Thermoblock versus Boiler

                        Perhaps the plastic is the "crema enhancer" disc. Never a good sign I cant see why a real espresso machine would need such contrivances.

                        Id remove that out of the PF before attempting any real brewing. The sign of real espresso is a rust coloured (reddish-brown) crema, not a golden "crema" that emerges out of an "enhanced" portafilter.

                        Just my 2 cents worth.

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                        • #42
                          Re: Thermoblock versus Boiler

                          OK, we are not jumping into conclusions here, are we?

                          The plastic inside the pf is not a crema enhancing device and the creama that emerges from it is golden brown indeed and just the same colour as the one I extract from our comercial machine.  The plastic is simply there to make it easy to clean (and it is soooo easy), and to smooth the flow of the brew out of the pf.  If you look, youll see that there is one hole in the middle and it goes straight down into the exit hole.  The oils from the coffee do not stick to it and it is only a rinse and whipe affair to keep it clean.  

                          They used SS, brass where it was needed and used some very good quality plastics where it is needed for ease of maintenence.  At least it wont rust like the Silvia does, I guess.  

                          Ooooh!  
                          <Monti runs and puts his motorcycle helmet on.>

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                          • #43
                            Re: Thermoblock versus Boiler

                            Monti...is this "one hole in the middle" a small hole, a pinhole?

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                            • #44
                              Re: Thermoblock versus Boiler

                              Nothing like a pin hole. Much larger.
                              It seems to be the same size all the way through to the two-pronged outlet down the bottom of the pf. It seems to be around 5-7 millimetres but it is only an estimate.

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                              • #45
                                Re: Thermoblock versus Boiler

                                Monti,

                                There is no reason to get either defensive or offended by my posts. I was merely curious. I was only asking the question about crema enhancement because many TB machines have these devices installed, I guess to give the impression that these machines can actually produce real espresso.

                                Personally I couldnt really care less. Your crusade is your own, and I hope that you understand that neither I, nor anyone else here is trying to attack you or yr new machine.

                                What people are trying to do is determine the truth about this machine. You will have to admit that Sunbeam has a far from stellar record in producing machines for the connoisseur. This is why any claims to the contrary is greeting with scepticism. And it is why many of us would like to see an objective review on this machine, performed by an expert. We will not have to wait long.

                                Avi

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