Re: Thermoblock versus Boiler
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Re: Thermoblock versus Boiler
I need morrree measurrrrements Captain otherwise this threads gonna bloooowwww!!!!
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Re: Thermoblock versus Boiler
Hi All,
I think that without solid data resulting from an independent and respected reviewer/tester pushing the EM6900 though its paces, is just causing this thread to disappear into an ever decreasing spiral of argument, counter-argument and frustration on many fronts. We will all have to wait until such data is available before coming to any conclusions about the pros and cons of said machine before venturing further conjecture and argument.
All that matters at the moment is that Monti is more than satisfied with all facets of the EM6900s performance, build quality and quality of the shots produced and that is surely the most important thing for now?
How about we all wait until the data is published, eh?
Cheers,
Mal.
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Re: Thermoblock versus Boiler
Defensive? What do you mean? I just gave you the answer to your question. If I was, I am sorry, didnt mean it, but what are you refering to if you dont mind me asking?Originally posted by Avi link=1118073813/30#44 date=1121395542Monti,
There is no reason to get either defensive or offended by my posts. I was merely curious. I was only asking the question about crema enhancement because many TB machines have these devices installed, I guess to give the impression that these machines can actually produce real espresso.
I dont blame you if you are a sceptic at all. After all, there hasnt been a TB machine like the EM6900 before. I have no problems with your questions. Keep them coming. Ill do my best to give you the answers, and my oppinions too.
Personally I couldnt really care less. Your crusade is your own, and I hope that you understand that neither I, nor anyone else here is trying to attack you or yr new machine.
What crusade? I am just happy and amazed that a TB machine can be this good, myself. That is all. Sorry, if that is out of line.
I agree with you all the way. I just like to give things a chance and gather the facts before I shoot them down. So far the only fats I have is that it makes damn good coffee and the steam is more then powerful enough and never runs out. It also looks damn good. 8)What people are trying to do is determine the truth about this machine. You will have to admit that Sunbeam has a far from stellar record in producing machines for the connoisseur. This is why any claims to the contrary is greeting with scepticism. And it is why many of us would like to see an objective review on this machine, performed by an expert. We will not have to wait long.
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Re: Thermoblock versus Boiler
Monti,
There is no reason to get either defensive or offended by my posts. I was merely curious. I was only asking the question about crema enhancement because many TB machines have these devices installed, I guess to give the impression that these machines can actually produce real espresso.
Personally I couldnt really care less. Your crusade is your own, and I hope that you understand that neither I, nor anyone else here is trying to attack you or yr new machine.
What people are trying to do is determine the truth about this machine. You will have to admit that Sunbeam has a far from stellar record in producing machines for the connoisseur. This is why any claims to the contrary is greeting with scepticism. And it is why many of us would like to see an objective review on this machine, performed by an expert. We will not have to wait long.
Avi
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Re: Thermoblock versus Boiler
Nothing like a pin hole. Much larger.
It seems to be the same size all the way through to the two-pronged outlet down the bottom of the pf. It seems to be around 5-7 millimetres but it is only an estimate.
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Re: Thermoblock versus Boiler
Monti...is this "one hole in the middle" a small hole, a pinhole?
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Re: Thermoblock versus Boiler
OK, we are not jumping into conclusions here, are we?
The plastic inside the pf is not a crema enhancing device and the creama that emerges from it is golden brown indeed and just the same colour as the one I extract from our comercial machine. The plastic is simply there to make it easy to clean (and it is soooo easy), and to smooth the flow of the brew out of the pf. If you look, youll see that there is one hole in the middle and it goes straight down into the exit hole. The oils from the coffee do not stick to it and it is only a rinse and whipe affair to keep it clean.
They used SS, brass where it was needed and used some very good quality plastics where it is needed for ease of maintenence. At least it wont rust like the Silvia does, I guess.
Ooooh!
<Monti runs and puts his motorcycle helmet on.>
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Re: Thermoblock versus Boiler
Perhaps the plastic is the "crema enhancer" disc. Never a good sign
I cant see why a real espresso machine would need such contrivances.
Id remove that out of the PF before attempting any real brewing. The sign of real espresso is a rust coloured (reddish-brown) crema, not a golden "crema" that emerges out of an "enhanced" portafilter.
Just my 2 cents worth.
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Re: Thermoblock versus Boiler
Probably the wrong thread, this should probably be in the other argument about thermoblocks, but what the heck ...
I saw the sunbeam today, in the flesh. Whats with the plastic inside the portafilter? Other than that, it looked nice ... but I must confess, I saw it after an hour or two playing with a dual-boiler expobar brewtus (one of three in Australia) at Forsyths in Naremburn ... the sunbeam just didnt compare with two boilers, PID, E-61 group head ...
That said, the brewtus will be $1400 more ...
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Re: Thermoblock versus Boiler
I am sure many are already doing the testing out there. We are just going to have to wait, I guess. I do hope that they are doing it properly not like that test on coffeegeek where someone just stuffs a huge styrofoam cup under the showerhead and puts a temperature measuring lead through the side of the cup, with the cup jacked up underneath. He is measuring the temp at a flow speed, volume, distance, pressure., etc, that is irrelevant and doesnt reflect conditions that are present when actually extracting coffee.Originally posted by wattgn link=1118073813/30#36 date=1121313444Monti:
We could settle the debate about temperature stability over about 30 minutes with a thermocouple dipped in your portafilter.
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Re: Thermoblock versus Boiler
I think a lot of us geeks live very sheltered lives. I believe most people who buy coffee machines dont know how to operate them and are more interested in a design that fits in with their kitchen decor. How many people would know how many degrees their brew water varies? Before I shoved a thermocouple into a Gaggia, most people assumed that they were temperature stable. Im sure Gaggias sales wont suffer now that the cat is out of the bag. In fact I like the look of my Classic. I think it looks better than the Silvia, even though it doesnt perform to the same high standards. How many people dont think past that point?
Stock every DJ and Meyers with a $600 machine that steams and brews at the same time. Add to that that it looks good, has lots of nifty features... It will out sell the Gaggia Classic on function and maybe looks. The only thing Gaggia has going for it is its name and reputation, and if youre new to espresso, then it doesnt even have that.
I believe that Sunbeam employ marketing people to identify a market niche and aim their machine at that level. Im sure theyre not aiming at us coffee geeks, but theyre not far off.
One last thought. When people upgrade their Silvias to HX machines, its usually because the Silvia cant make milk based drinks fast enough. It looks like the little $600 Sunbeam has that one sown up. Being more than $400 cheaper than the cheapest deal on a new HX machine. Id say they have some market niche. The purported performance doesnt even have to be true, it just has to be propagated by the people selling the machines.
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Re: Thermoblock versus Boiler
Monti:
We could settle the debate about temperature stability over about 30 minutes with a thermocouple dipped in your portafilter.
The lovely thing about temperature measurements is that it is just so OBJECTIVE. The evidence, whether you like it or not, is incontovertible.
It is like the old race adage, "when the flag drops, the bullshit stops"
The Silvia is not a perfect machine and I now have a warts and all understanding of my machine and how it works.
The Sunbeam is still unexplored but this will change over the next few weeks. If it were to be shown that the temp variation is in the range of just a few degrees over a shot and close to the target temp of about 94C then you would find that this machine would be on Geeks buying lists. If more than this then I would say it will be off the Geeks buying list but may still garner some respect depending. If it is more than say 5 degrees variation then it will be "Sayonara Sunbeam".
It will all be over quite quickly, one way or another, when it happens.
Grant
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Re: Thermoblock versus Boiler
Ive been thinking.... tinker mode on.... Id bet that if you got two thermoblocks and joined then together, the temperature stability during a shot would rival that from a HX and at 1/10 the price.
Add some tight temperature control to the second thermoblock and you could dial in your desired temperature. Only problem would be sourcing a decent group/PF combo... Maybe an old Gaggia group/PF... I might have a check on ebay... ;D
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Re: Thermoblock versus Boiler
Monti:
Yes, phew a bit hot in here!
It is just a stupid machine. I mean whatever we argue about, we, the members are the forum.
It is good though really that we have something to argue about.
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