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  • Upgrading Silvia

    Im looking @ upgrading my Silvia. I have about $2500 - $3000 to spend. I have an MD50 Grinder ugly but does the job.

    Im thinking Rancilio Epoca single group Commercial is there a better alternative?

    David

  • #2
    Re: Upgrading Silvia

    Ill bite!

    I upgraded from a Silvia to an ECM Giotto after much research and have had zero issues. The Giotto is arguably the best of the E-61 based domestic machines.

    As far as I can tell there is no single group Epoca machine. They are 2 or 3 group. This size machine draws a lot of power and needs to be plumbed in.

    If Rancilio takes your fancy then have a look at the S24, S26 and S27 that offer increasing sophistication and features and all are in your price range.

    Another option is the Reneka Techno which is probably the cheapest of the dual boiler machines with rotary pump.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Upgrading Silvia



      Theres one but an s24 is an option but the looks are dated. The ECM machines are worth a look I guess. Plumbing in doesnt bother me too much the water pipe and drain from the dishwasher pass right under where it would go.

      Thanks CS for ya help with the image.

      Is a commercial machine better than say a HX machine.

      David
      He who Lurks

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Upgrading Silvia

        David
        In this price range, the Giotto is right up there and is certainly a fine piece of equipment. I have had one on the bench for about 2 years. Initially the Classic and now a Premium.
        Another contender is from the Diadema range. The Junior or (La Valentina) has a number of similar features to the Giotto. Also similar price.
        I currently have a Giotto, a Diadema Junior and an ECM A1 on my kitchen bench (luckily my better half loves her coffee). To be honest there is not much difference between the three. They all make excellent espresso.
        Excelent steaming capabilities.
        Team it up with a reasonable grinder, Mazzer, ECM Best, Tranquilo and start training for the world titles.
        I also have a MD40, so I could not see you having any problems with your MD50 and any of the above machines. If you have not changed your blades (burrs) over the past 12 months, I suggest you invest in a new set.
        If you have any specific questions on any of the machines I mentioned, I would be happy to answer them on or off the forum.
        John

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Upgrading Silvia

          The burrs are about 6months old i guess but the HUGE doser never gets used. :-/ My Turkish friend does get me to grind all his coffee for him tho

          I have some hard thinking to do.

          David

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Upgrading Silvia

            Ah! Interesting that Rancilio dont have the one group Epoca on their web site.

            To be honest Im not overly sold on the look of this machine :-X, but I guess thats why there are many products to suit the broad range of tastes .

            From a practical point of view a commercial size machine needs to be on all the time or at least powered up an hour or more before you want your first coffee.

            Other than that dual boilers etc are nice but really only create a discernable difference to the absolute coffee pedant. (;D Not a bad a thing!)

            The Epoca S1 is a bit odd in that the standalone version has a 3.9l boiler but only a 2l tank ???.

            In the "low end" commercial machines you could look at the La Spaziale Vivaldi S1 in addition to the S24-S27 machines.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Upgrading Silvia

              Originally posted by GR8WineandCoffee link=1101282668/0#3 date=1101292567
              I currently have a Giotto, a Diadema Junior and an ECM A1 on my kitchen bench (luckily my better half loves her coffee). To be honest there is not much difference between the three. They all make excellent espresso.
              Excelent steaming capabilities.
              Wow now that line up would be worth a picture. you must have a huge kitchen

              Rich

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Upgrading Silvia

                Ohh so all the silvia posts are wrong too..... well actually most of them are saying she is finicky and needs modding etc complete load of rot. I am convinced that the 110v Silvia is a completely different beast to the 240v version it has to be with the 240v version having a higher wattage boiler. One of the reasons I started this site.

                I think that views expressed on sites like this by real people who actually use the machines is very valuable.

                I always with out fail seek out the opinions of actual users and technicians before buying an expensive piece of equipment that I have seen written up by some retailer. It pays to double cheque when making a major purchase.

                Rancilio has done exrtremely well out of Mark Prince and coffeegeek. The Importer of Rancilio in Australia told me himself.

                Keep it real folks!

                Tell the world what you think of your coffee machine set up. Weather its a Sunbeam or a 6 group commercial sitting on your bench. Tell it like it is People. Whether you love it or hate it. Tell us.

                Cheers
                Rich
                Keeping It Real - JJJ

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Upgrading Silvia

                  Hi Fresh_Coffee.

                  Well I did say arguably so here we go!

                  I find the look of the Giotto to be the best (IMHO) and with regard to its technical merits: the build quality, boiler orientation (good for cup warming), and boiler size just seemed to put it a little ahead of the others for me. (Although the Unico Splendor does look very nice ).

                  My comment re the relative merits of the Giotto is based on looking at a number of E-61 based machines including the E-61 Rocket, Isomac Tea/Millennium, and a couple of the Diadema machines you sell.

                  I settled on the Giotto because it is very well known, well built, looks great, has a lot of enthusiastic owners and has had no reports of any fundamental problems - hence the justly deserved accolades. It was also cheaper than most of the Diademas.

                  The dealer delivered my Giotto in person to Canberra with Charles, the ECM distributor in tow. I bought a Mazzer Mini Electronic at the same time because it was doserless, has huge burrs and patented stepless grinding adjustment. I am not aware of any comparable grinder.

                  Sure I could have bought a different E-61 based machine, but I bet Ill get more for my Giotto and Mazzer second hand than any of the lesser known brands.

                  The real proof in the pudding for me, my family and friends is that I make the best coffee we have tasted anywhere (using Alan Frews roasted beans until recently). Things have dropped back a notch since I got my HOTTOP :-/ but that situation is recovering rapidly 8).

                  As a final point, you say that people are blinded by the hype and only want to look at machines like the Silvia, well your web site has the following quote:

                  "Simply the best manually operated domestic espresso machine on the market, manufactured by a respected commercial espresso machine maker."

                  If you are willing to price match the apparently inferior Unico Splendor Id be happy to buy one! ;D

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Upgrading Silvia

                    Well I had a play with the ECM Giotto is very nice the Diadema junior plus lever would do to. Just seen pictures of this one.

                    I want a closer look at the Rancilio machines too, Ill do that on Monday.
                    The Silvia is best in its class and makes some damn fine coffees. So the epoca or s24-27 should do the same or better.

                    I noticed that a few sites say the e61 machines will make commercial quality espresso wouldnt a real commercial machine do that too? As it is my Silvia makes better coffee than 99% of cafés. Its just a pain when there are guests all wanting my coffee.

                    David
                    Hey CS you listen to Triple J too huh?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Upgrading Silvia

                      Have you considered a La Cimbali? You could get a new Junior S for under $3k. They are built extremely well with heavy duty being the operative word, my 1996 version looks almost brand new.

                      If you do a bit of research youll find plenty of info. The US market seems to pay as much if not more for them after $ conversions and they are keenly sought after as good value even when they cost nearly twice as much as Giottos in the states

                      Coffex in Melb are the Aust distributors. Besides if you buy one Ill have someone else to swap notes with

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Upgrading Silvia

                        How much would a Diadema Junior plus set you back?

                        There is also the Snob value of having a commercial machine in your kitchen. When asked what sort of machine you have and the answer is "Commercial" in stead of a "insert brand" the usual reaction is "A what machine?"

                        Even if the X brand machine is better the word "Commercial" says it all IMHO. People start taking you seriously. Ive tried it even those who should know better.

                        David

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Upgrading Silvia

                          Hi Fresh_Coffee.

                          I might take you up on that comparison since I live in Canberra and I do duck out to your shop for a look occasionally. It would be good fun and interesting education for the group.

                          My comment about price matching was just a tongue in cheek reference to your web site comment that the Silvia is the best manual lever machine available. I was suggesting that if that is the case then other lever machines shouldnt be any more expensive.

                          With regards to PIDing the Silvia, I did consider that before I got rid of mine, but decided I wanted something new and shiny. I sold it after a year for around 80% of what I paid for it. Not many things hold value that well. Only reason I got rid of it is beause I wanted a machine that can make coffee after coffee after coffee...

                          I give a big thumbs up to the people that mod their Silvia. They are the car mechanics of the espresso world who push the boundaries for all and show what is technically possible.

                          Thumbs up to the La Cimbali too. Is very solid and has a very big boiler for this class of machine.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Upgrading Silvia

                            Im not agianst modding the Silvia but i am against saying its an absolute MUST. Such statements are false.

                            Ive considered pidding my Silvia, more as a project than really needing too but like you ill upgrade instead some time this year. Not sure to what tho.

                            Should talk nicely to some importers and do a review or two.

                            Would I be correct in saying the diff between a top end HX machine and a commercial machine is like the Difference between a truck and a Rolls Royce?

                            Cheers
                            Rich

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Upgrading Silvia

                              Id say the difference between a HX and Commercial machine is the more like the difference between a Subaru WRX and an Audi.

                              Both are capable of producing pretty much the same results but people seem to fiddle more with WRXs. In terms of build quality and safety (reliability) Id go with the Audi hands down.

                              Oh and in case you are wondering, I own an Audi.

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