EM6900 Reliability

[marcstolk]

Re: EM6900 Reliability

Mr Bean - have you had luck contacting Mr Court? Can you tell me whether it was e-mail and if so his address?

Cheers

Id be interested as well... Ive given up trying to contact Damien Court...

[marcstolk]

Re: EM6900 Reliability

Hello everyone,

Many thanks for the responses, they are of a great help.
I will endeavour to answer some of the questions put forth....

When we bought our machine (in Ballarat) thats all we got.
There was no DVD, no training, just the box with the machine in it.
Sunbeam offered nothing else with this.

Before having a look at the Sunbeam, he disliked thermoblock machines completely.
And how he can put the sunbeam with the other models that he supports is a little suspect for me.

Firstly, If you had of called Sunbeam and asked them about the coffee appreciation course, you would have known if it was available to you at Ballarat. If you had followed the Sunbeam discussions on coffeesnobs you should have picked up that there was a free course. In fact looks on the product information on the Em6900 on the sunbeam website you would have seen the information regarding the course. Initative can offer some nice rewards at times.

Secondly, Alan Frews negativeity towards Thermoblocks were on Temp Control and they were Aluminium. The Sunbeam Em6900 is Electronically temp controlled and lined with Stainless steel which prompted a review on his opinion - and he Paid full retail price on the test unit - Sunbeam DIDNT supply for free. And he said he still thinks the Thermoblock is still not up to speed (in his opinion)... I still dont know how you get that he fully recommends the product? Is there something in that review that I missed?? I read his review AFTER I purchased mine.

Marc

[gamack]

Re: EM6900 Reliability

Hi Marc,

We did call Sunbeam and they didnt want to know us in Ballarat.
Courses were in Melbourne only.

They also took 7 weeks to replace my machine and never returned phone calls from both my wife and myself.

I wish I had spent the extra money to begin with and purchased a Rancilio Silvia.
I suppose you get what you pay for.......Sunbeam, made in china.

[scosullivan]

Re: EM6900 Reliability

After reading this, I feel like a seasoned driver of the EM 6900.  I was given it as a house-warming in August last year (just over 12 months...) and it had the Harvey Norman extended warranty.  I used it daily, and multiple times on weekends.  Comments on the experience:

1. Found that the spouts werent symmetrical causing one coffee to be stronger than the other.
2. Failed to get a consistent pour.  I understand the obvious user input variation, but upgraded the gaggia grinder to the 4080 to eliminate that variable without success.  I got more consistent coffee from an old $90 Krups.
3. After about 3 months I got a red-flashing light when it turned-on, prohibiting me from doing anything.  This could be cured by turning off/on but I found nothing in the manual on this.  I also found that by cleaning it, it would go away for a while (maybe an undocumented feature?).
4. All was fine (except above) for about 9 months when I got a ticking noise when using the steamer.  It lost pressure & generally went dodgey for a couple of days before curing itself.
5. Last week (just out of Sunbeam warranty) the steamer made additional clicking noises & now does nothing.  Harvey Norman are sending a cheque (they wont repace it as the price has increased since purchased).

After reading the last 6 pages I dont have a lot of confidence in buying another Sunbeam.  I called Sunbeam today & got a recorded message to call back another time.

[Sparky]

Re: EM6900 Reliability

Id really like to know the truth of this machine. DO most machines work well and only the people with lemons seek out the various furums to vent their frustration, or is their sample representative? If this machine really does have such reliability issues, then I cant see Sunbeam continuing this line unless they have deep pockets and a strong desire to get it right.

As Damian seems to have disappeared off the scene, Id be worried about Sunbeams continuing commitment to this machine. If this is the case, its a pity, because the machine is quite revolutionary in its design spec.

[scoota_gal]

Re: EM6900 Reliability

I cant give you the truth, Sparky because you cant handle the truth!! ;D

Ahem, sorry couldnt help myself there!! You left it wide open for that!

I can tell you I have three friends with the Sunbeam of which is spoken about here. Two of them so far are having no trouble with the machine, that I know of. They only use it about once a day I do know. The third has just had to send it off to Sunbeam after waiting and various calls for the past four or five weeks, a problem with the steaming side of things I believe.

So as they say. Two outta three aint bad.

[marcstolk]

Re: EM6900 Reliability

When the machine is working, its awesome. I think its snobs like us that use the machine Everyday that has really put the machine through the ringer... and I just dont think Sunbeam tested it to that level.....

I feel the EM6910 (If thats what its called) may in fact be the machine the EM6900 SHOULD have been... well see when it gets released.

A user on coffeegeek (corey) seems to know a bit about Sunbeams commitment and made the point that the new model blew him away (insider information apparently)... who really knows... but I can vouch that the last release em6900 seems to have the goods as i seem to have this one as Im on my 4th machine... been 4 weeks without a breakdown... :-)

Marc

[telemaster]

Re: EM6900 Reliability

When the machine is working, its awesome. I think its snobs like us that use the machine Everyday that has really put the machine through the ringer... and I just dont think Sunbeam tested it to that level.....

I feel the EM6910 (If thats what its called) may in fact be the machine the EM6900 SHOULD have been... well see when it gets released.

A user on coffeegeek (corey) seems to know a bit about Sunbeams commitment and made the point that the new model blew him away (insider information apparently)... who really knows... but I can vouch that the last release em6900 seems to have the goods as i seem to have this one as Im on my 4th machine... been 4 weeks without a breakdown... :-)

Marc

Im sorry, but I struggle with the idea of using a machine everyday as being beyond what a domestic machine is capable of. To my mind a well made domestic should give many years of service with only gaskets etc needing to be replaced. Put in a commercial group or at least an approximation, standard ulka style pump etc and it should be bullet proof.
Im wondering if its a case of trying to get too much performance for too little price. I commented in another thread that a coffee machine should look pretty agricultural inside- boiler, pipes, pump and on/off switches. The moment you introduce electronics and bits and bobs you get trouble- all there should be is a way of heating water, a thermostat, a steam arm, solid group head and handle and a pump. If you cant get reliability with this basic stuff then components and quality control must be crap!
I understand the problems of temp stability with a single boiler, but is it Luddite to wonder whether thermoblock etc as a way to do what a brass, copper or s/s boiler will do, is a reliable long term solution? Sounds like, Ive got this way with lots of fiddly bits, to approximate what something simple will do reliably.
Sound like Sunbeam?
Brett

[Lovey]

Re: EM6900 Reliability

When the machine is working, its awesome. I think its snobs like us that use the machine Everyday that has really put the machine through the ringer... and I just dont think Sunbeam tested it to that level.....
Marc

But Sunbeam did market it to Snobs, with the over-dosing, grunt tamping, WBC as their front man. He would give any machine a thorough workout, let alone a small home machine .
They put out a machine which has revolutionary tehnology and who sees its competition as HX machines, having the twin thermoblocks and non-pressurised portafilters, which is a maked deviation from most home appliance branded machines.
I think they have tried to cram too much technoloy into the machine, and have rushed it onto the market, with the results being plain to see.

[Mr_Bean]

Re: EM6900 Reliability

[QUOTE=Lovey link=1154489886/75#83 date=1158136922]

I think they have tried to cram too much technoloy into the machine, and have rushed it onto the market, with the results being plain to see.

Spot on. I think it was launched prematurely as the problems should have been evident if serious testing of production samples had been done, judging by how commonly they were breaking down.  Hopefully Mark II will be better although I wonder how much damage has been done to mass market sentiment.

[marcstolk]

Re: EM6900 Reliability

When the machine is working, its awesome. I think its snobs like us that use the machine Everyday that has really put the machine through the ringer... and I just dont think Sunbeam tested it to that level.....
Marc

But Sunbeam did market it to Snobs, with the over-dosing, grunt tamping, WBC as their front man. He would give any machine a thorough workout, let alone a small home machine .
They put out a machine which has revolutionary tehnology and who sees its competition as HX machines, having the twin thermoblocks and non-pressurised portafilters, which is a maked deviation from most home appliance branded machines.
I think they have tried to cram too much technoloy into the machine, and have rushed it onto the market, with the results being plain to see.

Yep, thats a fair comment and very true. Id say, as you say, it was "rushed" onto the Market without thorough testing! You can get a WBC to drill it for a day or 2, but over 2-3weeks? I dont think so. I have alot of respect for Paul Bassett and what he is trying to do in educating the general coffee drinker to higher levels, but I do think he has scared his name with this association with this machine - or with Sunbeam in general.... Now, will there be a correction?

[Sparky]

Re: EM6900 Reliability

I commented in another thread that a coffee machine should look pretty agricultural inside- boiler, pipes, pump and on/off switches. The moment you introduce electronics and bits and bobs you get trouble- all there should be is a way of heating water, a thermostat, a steam arm, solid group head and handle and a pump.

While I subscribe to the KISS principle, electronics generally are about as reliable as you can get. Generally, its electro-mechanical components, like relays, that die. In most electronics the most common item to fail is the large electrolytic capacitor in the powersupply. Otherwise they can run forever. In most high-end machines there is an electronic box for the auto-fill function as well as for the auto-dosing function on automatic machines. If these components were unreliable then they wouldnt be specced on commercial machines.

I understand the problems of temp stability with a single boiler, but is it Luddite to wonder whether thermoblock etc as a way to do what a brass, copper or s/s boiler will do, is a reliable long term solution?

Probably more so. The thermoblock is simply a combination of a pipe and element embedded in a metal block. Thats even simpler than a boiler and it is more robust, as you cant easily burn out the element. If you compare to a Silvia boiler for example, its not too hard to inadvertently burn out the element. Then youre up for a new boiler, as the element is integral in this machine. This is one of the expensive failure modes that the Sunbeam is not prone to. Thermoblocks have been used for years in scientific heating applications, so they certainly arent bad at what they do. Youd be flat out buying a scientific thermoblock heating system for less than $10K. The thermoblock unit in the Sunbeam EM6900 is closer in design to a high end scientific unit than to the cheaper thermoblocks.

I think the people who currently own the EM6900 are akin to software beta testers. If they can iron out all the bugs, the final machine will be awesome.

Cheers,

Mark.

[marcstolk]

Re: EM6900 Reliability

I think the people who currently own the EM6900 are akin to software beta testers. If they can iron out all the bugs, the final machine will be awesome.

Cheers,

Mark.

Ahh, therein lies the difference... Beta Software is supplied for Free...not paid for... but for what its worth, you are correct about ironing out the bugs for the final machine.

Marc

PS... I wonder if Sunbeam will offer trade ins and a "WOW" price is offered to purchase the new model for existing EM6900 users who have had there machine replaced 3 or more times?....Oh, hang on, Sunbeam is a publicly listed company, this wont happen. :-)

[DrT]

Re: EM6900 Reliability

I have yet to open mine up and use it - now I think the "fingers crossed" principle would be appropriate.

3rd and 4th machines? Damn - I would want to pay a visit to the designers with a baseball bat......

Oh, I did open it all up for a sneak peek and it has the black plastic thingy in the portafilter (insert crowd displeased "oh uh" sound here)

I think if mine stuffs up I wont bother with a replacement - I will go for a refund, and the jugular if necessary!!

I have had FAR too many appliances go ka-put on me to even bother with trying to get another, and another, and another....

You think coffee machines in the $500 category are bad? A new, GOOD bagpipe bag will cost in excess of $300 and there is no warranty. If you put it onto your pipes and it starts leaking for one reason or another after just a few minutes of playing, youve done your dosh. Now doesnt that suck !


DrT

[Mr_Bean]

Re: EM6900 Reliability

A new, GOOD bagpipe bag will cost in excess of $300 and there is no warranty. If you put it onto your pipes and it starts leaking for one reason or another after just a few minutes of playing, youve done your dosh. Now doesnt that suck !


DrT

How many BAR of pressure can you get out of that thing? And are the pucks dry? And can it steam at the same time?