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La Cimbali M20, help me help it lose some weight

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  • La Cimbali M20, help me help it lose some weight

    Hi guys, im looking at a 1Group Cimbali M20 (about 16yrs old), but the problem is its in Melbourne and i need it in Qld.

    As luck would have it, i have some relatives coming up from Melbourne this weekend, and i would love to be able to get them to bring it up on the plane with them (wish they were driving hehe).

    However ive heard that these can be quite heavy, with some quoting the Junior Ds as being close to 40kgs, and the maximum single-item weight for hold-baggage on either Qantas or Virgin is 32kgs.

    Firstly, does anyone know of the weight of one of these machines?

    Secondly, lets say its over 32kgs, is there any way i can trim the beast to get it under the 32kg mark?

    As there are 2 passengers coming up at least, if theres anything i can remove that will get the weight down, i can just put those bits in another persons luggage.

    Given that i dont really know what they look like inside, or what you can and cant remove off these things, i was hoping for some help.

    Anyone got any suggestions?

    Cheers,

  • #2
    Re: La Cimbali M20, help me help it lose some weig

    Dont know the exact weight but the 2 group is "just" able to be lifted by two people! (the single would be a lighter- but not half the weight) :-/

    Most of the weight is in the chassis / boiler / brass fittings including the group head assembly.....

    You can remove the drain tray, the cup walming trays, the end plates at either end of the walming tray - vertical bits which are painted (and of course the group handle) but that wont save too much....

    To reduce further would reqire MAJOR dissassembly

    And of course drain the boiler!!!

    But I would suggest a courier..... the airline might get a bit funny when they Xray the luggage.... (and they do) >

    It could look like something real nasty!!! Do you really want to cause your friends that sort of grief???

    And airlines are often not very careful with passanger luggage - even items marked fragile!!! (Ive seen a passanger bag which fell off a wagon run over- and baggage thrown from the hold onto the wagon below!!!)

    Courier + insurance = safe arrival

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: La Cimbali M20, help me help it lose some weig

      However you end up transporting it, make sure that at no point is it subjected to freezing temperatures!!!

      Even with the boiler drained water will remain in the piping, the pump, and the heat exchanger. None of which youd like the end result of them being frozen.

      The single heaviest part in the machine will be the grouphead with the pump motor most likely being next in line. Unless youre planning on a complete teardown and descaling of it when it arrives I would advise against removing the grouphead. The motor on the other hand is relatively easy to remove and would not require that you buy any new parts to put it back on unlike the grouphead (gaskets).

      Ive never weighed one of the groupheads on my machine but Ive seen figures as high as 10kg for the Cimbali groupheads.

      If its motor/pump arrangement is like my M-28 you can remove the motor by loosening/removing a single screw on the band connecting the two, unplug the motor from the electrical harness, and remove the 4 bolts holding the motor to the frame. When reassymbling make sure to line the motor up with the pump.

      Java "Theyre called Tanks for a reason!" phile
      Toys! I must have new toys!!!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: La Cimbali M20, help me help it lose some weig

        Oh yeah, well im looking at Courier too, especially as we have a business courier account, but the only problem is it will take too long! unless i pay for express or something hehe. By the time i can get it picked up, wont be here till Tuesday-ish.

        As for the x-ray, i wont put the actual machine in their bags. Will just wrap it in a heap of big-bubble bubble wrap, and maybe some packing foam in a box and have it there as a seperate baggage item.
        Only thing in their luggage would be group handles, and they should be okay as its not in carry-on baggage....or sharp for that matter.

        I think your ticket includes a certain amount of insurance which is more than i would be paying for the machine anyway, so im not toooo worried.

        I mean, if it cant be done, i will just have it freighted up, but id like it this weekend if possible which isnt going to happen otherwise. (im so damn impatient hehe ).

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: La Cimbali M20, help me help it lose some weig

          Weight can be reduced by removing side panels(one screw only) rear panel (4 screws) top tray, group handle drip tray and water tank if fitted. This should bring it down to around 20kgs at the expense of some structural bracing. This is what I do if I need to move it, saves my back as dry weight is pretty close to 40kgs for the tank model, less for plumbed I think.

          Be very careful with the packing if you need to freight it and make sure its insured for damage
          good luck

          Maurice

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: La Cimbali M20, help me help it lose some weig

            Originally posted by Zakal1 link=1155104339/0#3 date=1155107305

            As for the x-ray, i wont put the actual machine in their bags. Will just wrap it in a heap of big-bubble bubble wrap, and maybe some packing foam in a box and have it there as a seperate baggage item.

            I think your ticket includes a certain amount of insurance which is more than i would be paying for the machine anyway, so im not toooo worried.

            .
            Hold baggage is Xrayed ----- looking for bombs and other terrorist type objects!!!

            From memory, insurance on luggage is $100 per item (if you paid less than that you have a real steal)

            Best of luck - hope it arrives in one piece, however you decide to ship it.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: La Cimbali M20, help me help it lose some weig

              Originally posted by Javaphile link=1155104339/0#2 date=1155107048
              However you end up transporting it, make sure that at no point is it subjected to freezing temperatures!!!
              Good point.....

              I hadnt thought of the temperature inside the unpressurised hold!

              I know it is -40C outside the plane and the normal baggage holds get cold

              I wonder if it would be cold enough to freeze water in the pipes etc (which as you say, would be near impossible to drain) :-/

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: La Cimbali M20, help me help it lose some weig

                Originally posted by JavaB link=1155104339/0#6 date=1155110486
                Originally posted by Javaphile link=1155104339/0#2 date=1155107048
                However you end up transporting it, make sure that at no point is it subjected to freezing temperatures!!!
                Good point.....

                I hadnt thought of the temperature inside the unpressurised hold!

                I know it is -40C outside the plane and the normal baggage holds get cold

                I wonder if it would be cold enough to freeze water in the pipes etc (which as you say, would be near impossible to drain) :-/

                Yeah thats a good point, hadnt thought of that, although dont they put Pets in the cargo hold?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: La Cimbali M20, help me help it lose some weig

                  Yep but in a special pressurised hold....

                  Not the normal luggage hold (animals in there die - partly due to lack of oxygen but also the cold!!)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: La Cimbali M20, help me help it lose some weig

                    Crap, that could be a problem.

                    Does this mean both taking it on a plane, and express(air) freight is out of the question entirely?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: La Cimbali M20, help me help it lose some weig

                      Id check to see how cold it gets.....

                      It might not get below zero, but would be pitty to wreck a great machine if it does.

                      A freight agent could possibly arrange to have it shipped in an appropriate hold if the normal baggage hold does get that cold. They do ship perishables which are damaged by freezing.....

                      Give the freight area of one of the airlines a ring..... might just be OK shipped normally.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: La Cimbali M20, help me help it lose some weig

                        Having noted your enthousiasm to get the M20 there, a couple of warnings might be useful so you dont damage it on arrival

                        Firstly if it is the original rotory pump - and that is most likely- they like pressure on the supply side (plumbed to mains). This should be between 3 and 6 bars.

                        Less than 3 bars and you risk damaging the pump and greater than 6 bars and you might get leakage at the group etc.

                        So you cant feed it from a tank (there are some rotory pumps which will draw from a tank.... this aint one of them.... if you are going to use a tank it needs to be 30M above the machine

                        If the mains pressure is >6 bars you need a pressure regulator (Cimbali say this is essential - ignore at your risk!) :-*

                        The boiler will be empty. The power switch has two positions

                        1. all electronics including auto fill
                        2. as above plus heater.

                        So turn to position 1 and wait until the little green ball in the level tube is between min and max (good idea to wait until it stops filling - probably 2/3 to 3/4 up from min towards max).

                        then switch to position 2

                        If you dont wait you will cook the elements! Nasty >

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: La Cimbali M20, help me help it lose some weig

                          Oh thanks, there are some pretty timely warnings there, as i probably would have done quite a few of those without thinking.

                          For instance, id already forumlated a plan to get started before plumbing it in by using a tank to put the hose in (heheh).

                          As for supply side pressure, how do i check that?


                          As for the plane hold, i dont think thats an option anymore, relatives arnt coming up anymore, so its back to normal courier, and a Tuesday unfortunately. Oh well, at least they dont have to pull it apart and get quizzed about the stainless steel panels in their luggage. hehe.


                          Thanks again for the tips.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: La Cimbali M20, help me help it lose some weig

                            Originally posted by Zakal1 link=1155104339/0#12 date=1155132262

                            As for supply side pressure, how do i check that?
                            You could beg/borrow a pressure gauge.....

                            But I know most domestic water supplies are around 4-6Bar. So I coupled the M20 up.... carefully turned on the water supply whilst watching the bottom guage (with the power off)..... In my case it went up to 5 Bar... sweet.

                            If it went above 6Bar I intended to turn the water off QUICKLY and go buy a pressure regulator. I figure a very short burst at above 6Bar wouldnt do any damage (the pipes are designed for the brew pressure of 9Bar after which the over pressure relief will operate).

                            That way you wont need any additional gear.

                            By the way, if your water is hard, it would be a good idea to have a water softener before the machine (mine came with one). If you need one, or a pressure regulator, Bunnings have them.

                            I think the delay in getting the machine might be good, it is always possible something could be damaged when people try to pull the unit apart (if they dont know what they are doing).....

                            Im sure you will be very pleased with the unit when it finally gets to you.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: La Cimbali M20, help me help it lose some weig

                              Originally posted by Zakal1 link=1155104339/0#12 date=1155132262
                              Oh thanks, there are some pretty timely warnings there, as i probably would have done quite a few of those without thinking.

                              For instance, id already forumlated a plan to get started before plumbing it in by using a tank to put the hose in (heheh).

                              As for supply side pressure, how do i check that?


                              Thanks again for the tips.
                              is it a rotary or vibe pump?  Mine is a vibe pump and requires main pressure  for the boiler autofill but the dosing chamber will fill from about a 2 meter  gravity feed.

                              AFAIK most rotary pumps eg procons will happily feed from a reservoir once primed but I dont know what early model cimbalis used.

                              Rotary pumps are very suscpetible to damge if run dry whilst vibe pumps are more forgiving (for a short period only).

                              Comment

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