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  • #16
    Re: HX units in Melbourne

    Polly, I also took exception to this comment. Youve said everything I would have, probably a little more politely

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    • #17
      Re: HX units in Melbourne

      FYI all- The mods spoke with this member about his conduct....Sadly, it would appear that he has chosen to discontinue membership...

      I think we can resume service with the non-sexist, supportive community that CS has always been  

      I say lets close the discussion about that matter now and resume the actual thread .

      Ren had a chat this week and I think hes planning a visit sometime soon 8-)

      2mcm

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      • #18
        Re: HX units in Melbourne

        Posted by: Lovey Posted on: Today at 11:19
        How did you go Ren?
        Have you managed to narrow down your selection at all?
        Were all excited, another one in the trap    


        Hi Lovey,

        I have narrowed it down to three machines (Giotto, Minore & Domobar Super).

        Giotto: it would be nice if it had a brew press guage, indicator light for low water level and larger spill tray.

        Minore: a liitle concerned about the Spanish build quality and energy consumption heating 2 x 1500 boilers and finally the looks.

        Domobar Super: seems very good on paper, looks is second behind the Giotto, but concerned about very little information on it and only one retailer in Melb.

        Would love to here from anyone with any of these three models and there experiences..

        Ren

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        • #19
          Re: HX units in Melbourne

          Not in Melbourne, but maybe helpful.

          We have been through a similar exercise recently. We eventually bought an
          Isomac Mondiale, which does have a dual pressure gauge, and a drip dray
          of good size and larger surface area. It doesnt have a low water level light,
          but the reservoir is very easlily accessed, so  I just top it up after every use.
          And we liked its slightly quirky look.

          We looked at Expobar (not Minore though): ruled it out partly because my wife
          was concerned with build, but mostly because the local sales outlet could not
          competently demonstrate it.

          Which brings me to what I think is the most important point. The machine we
          bought was from a vendor that we have known for years, has helped us with
          several generations of  machines that one could say had seen better days, and
          (more to the point) had this m/c and several others set up, running at correct
          temp, with good grinders, so that we could see them working, taste the results,
          and try them out. People that we could trust to help iron out problems and give
          advice on getting the best out of the m/c.

          That I think is at least as important as the technical aspects of the m/c itself.
          All of these will make excellent coffee!

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          • #20
            Re: HX units in Melbourne

            Originally posted by hazbean link=1156854772/15#18 date=1157246136
            Not in Melbourne, but maybe helpful.

            We have been through a similar exercise recently. We eventually bought an
            Isomac Mondiale, which does have a dual pressure gauge, and a drip dray
            of good size and larger surface area. It doesnt have a low water level light,
            but the reservoir is very easlily accessed, so  I just top it up after every use.
            And we liked its slightly quirky look.

            We looked at Expobar (not Minore though): ruled it out partly because my wife
            was concerned with build, but mostly because the local sales outlet could not
            competently demonstrate it.

            Which brings me to what I think is the most important point. The machine we
            bought was from a vendor that we have known for years, has helped us with
            several generations of  machines that one could say had seen better days, and
            (more to the point) had this m/c and several others set up, running at correct
            temp, with good grinders, so that we could see them working, taste the results,
            and try them out. People that we could trust to help iron out problems and give
            advice on getting the best out of the m/c.

            That I think is at least as important as the technical aspects of the m/c itself.
            All of these will make excellent coffee!
            Good to see that youre doing your homework Ren.

            I have no experience of the Vibiemme but FC mentioned that he thought that there were issues with service with this machine. Both the Giotto and the Minore II are great machines- though so far, the Giotto has far fewer build "issues" than the Minore II. The mondiale has a stainless steel boiler- like the synesso. For me, the arrangement of the school tap on or off of the wand controls was quirky, but not neccessarily functional. I had expressed interest in the mondiale but the importers are not inclined to have a CS sponsor selling them.

            I believe that there were some issues with stainless steel boilers (of some commercial machines) pitting and then becoming holed with the water in the Blue Mountains. Id suggest a search on this one.

            Having sold a few Minore II now, I have come to understand that a simple bench test is not enough. I am now lifting the hood on every one I sell to check all conections- electrical and water- in addition to running a full pump and boiler pressure calibration.

            My one concern with the Minore is that the temp controller is located fairly close to the boiler. I see that this may be a cause of failures down the track....however its inexpensive and easily replaced... I expect that some owners will eventually attempt to PID this machine.

            As for the other queries, I wouldnt worry too much about a "brew pressure gauge". In all of the prosumer machines I have bench tested so far (and also my Veneziano for that matter), the gauge gives only an indication of pump pressure. They will often read 1-1.5 bar above actual grouphead pressure. This is why we use a portafilter pressure gauge and adjust pump pressure so that its correct at grouphead- regardless of what the gauge on the machine might read.

            A low water light might be a consideration but you will find that its not an issue. Many just top up their machines each day and that eliminates that issue.

            The important thing is to buy from a competent supplier who will bench test your machine, make any neccessary adjustments and who will be there for you throughout the ownership experience, not just to take your money and help you to put the machine in the boot of the car...Then its up to you to learn to be consistent in how you use your machine and to get the best from it...

            Chris

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: HX units in Melbourne

              Hi Ren,

              Ive watched this thread from the onset but in the interests of professionalilty have kept out of it.

              Its gone on long enough now I think, for me to respectfully butt in and state my own case...

              Let me declare first my own interest as the importer of Diadema Junior & Unico Splendor machines which I think you seriously should have a look at. If you already have and simply dont like the looks, so be it! However whilst the other machines you mentioned have only one body style each, ours have 4 body styles to chosse from. Thats great for clients as well as for us as thats three more choices than the others give.

              I made up a comparison of important inclusions between our machines & others competing in the same market sector, for another thread a few weeks ago...dont know whether you saw it so here it is:

              ".....................

              There are quite a few happy Junior / Splendor owners in the CS group however if you need a little extra convincing about the exceptional standard of these machines, check out the following:

              They come standard with  
              • deep commercial filters (some others only come with the smaller Italian market filters)
              • blind filter (some others dont supply this)
              • small tub of group head cleaner (others don’t supply)
              • group head brush (some others dont supply this)
              • reasonable quality plastic coffee tamper (others supply totally incorrect tamper)
              • a sizeable water softener / anti scaling filter in the water reservoir (others have either no filter or only a gauze particle filter with no anti scale action)
              • a spring loaded low level switch underneath the water reservoir that stops the machine pumping and switches the element off when there is not enough water in the water tank. This switch will always operate no matter what type of water is used in the machine because it only works on the principal of weight (whilst some others use low level sensors that will not operate when certain types of filtered / treated water are used)    
              • low level probe in the boiler (this ensures that when the water level drops below the probe the electric element is deactivated and does not burn out, and pump also de-activates. Some others use a re-settable high temperature thermostat instead for the purpose, but this is a real hassle to get to inside the body if it’s tripped, and by the time it goes off the element may already have been burned out).
              • a “return” on the face plate of the Junior Plus to direct splash back into the drip tray (the others dont, resulting in splash back by-passing the drip tray and leaking straight down to the bench
              • substantial anodized steel and stainless steel chassis (corrosion resistant).  Some others have only painted steel chassis.
              • much much better standard of internal build
              • exceptional standard of external finish and,
              deep, large, well secured drip tray.

              .............."

              Our machines also suffer less of the service problems we have found to exist in some others, either where simply, the standard of design & build is not as good OR,  where compromises in the standard of build have been made to accomodate fancy looking bodies.

              If you are going to see 2mcm, ask him to show you one of ours as well....it cant hurt.

              For the rest of it a water pressure guage is not a necessary inclusion and most semi commercial machines dont have one. Most clients (whether they be commercial or domestic clients) dont know what it (the pressure reading) means and if they did, woudnt know what to do with it. If you specifically want the gauge however, thats a different story! A low water light is nice but depending on what manufactuyrer and which model, you sometimes find that even when they are fitted, you might not be able to see it when its on as they can be quite dim. Whether it can be seen or not however, once the low water circuit is tripped the machine will simply stop running and thats the important bit. A low water *alarm* is better than a light, some of our Juniors (but not all) have one of these and when its tripped, you hear a very audible alarm AND the machine wont run until you fill her up.

              Regardz,
              FC.

              PS, its academic really, but did someone mention the mondiale has a stainless steel boiler????? Are you sure its not a regular "plated" copper boiler (the colour is similar)?

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: HX units in Melbourne

                To those interested in HX, I cant agree with FC more....

                The diadema is a sensational unit and they look superb also. Just last week, we used one to do coffee for 40 people at a breakfast get together....It coped superbly and kept up with no issues whatsoever...

                The espresso was gorgeous....

                I strongly encourage anyone interested in HX to look at Diadema when you shop....FC imports into Australia and we both sell the Junior plus and the Unico Splendor....

                More info at http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1155946396. Melbourne members please note that I have a demo on the bench ready for a play!

                Chris

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