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Different perspective on the pros/cons of Silvia?

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  • Different perspective on the pros/cons of Silvia?

    Some views from a respected colleague of our site sponsors but who is in fact, not a site sponsor..... just thought his take on the performance of the Silvia was interesting given some of the comments made by a number of people,

    Mal.

    http://tinyurl.com/ncn2v

  • #2
    Re: Different perspective on the pros/cons of Silv

    Like the Silvia article .... but the bit about crema ;D

    And Ive been trying so hard to get good crema too....

    Guess Im not up with the latest trend in espresso :-?

    (Just shows what marketing can and will do to sell a product) >

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Different perspective on the pros/cons of Silv

      Originally posted by JavaB link=1157354136/0#1 date=1157355247
      And Ive been trying so hard to get good crema too....

      Guess Im not up with the latest trend in espresso :-?(
      According to the article, yes you are JavaB!!

      Seriously, some people will try and tell you anything to sell bad coffee! :

      Good article, Mal.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Different perspective on the pros/cons of Silv

        Ive tasted a number of espresso drinks pulled from Synessos (machine that cant produce a decent crema) and can vouch for the authenticity of its crema - the shots , pulled by competent baristas, using good beans, have been excellent - to my homeboy (i.e. inexperienced) palate and eye.

        I feel the comments quoted are not true when read by themselves in the Coffeeco article. One should read the thread originally referenced in the article on Coffeegeek.


        http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/worldregional/australasia/249873

        pg2, the 2 Synesso owners, Corey and AndyL both state that they value the importance of crema and their beverages do have crema present, but the texture is different and it is fleeting. The do differ with Alan on the perfect shot volume and the how long it lingers for.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Different perspective on the pros/cons of Silv

          Thanks for drawing attention to the thread at CoffeeGeek. Absolutely fascinating! When experts disagree and let others in on the dialogue, I learn so much.

          Best wishes, Russell.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Different perspective on the pros/cons of Silv

            Hazel let me try pulling a shot on her new Synesso a couple of weeks ago.
            At that stage Id only had an espresso machine for about a week or two and she let me fill the portafilter, tamp and pull the shot all by myself.

            I have to say its the best looking shot Ive pulled to date.
            And tasted great too.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Different perspective on the pros/cons of Silv

              Originally posted by russellm link=1157354136/0#4 date=1157368547
              Thanks for drawing attention to the thread at CoffeeGeek. Absolutely fascinating! When experts disagree and let others in on the dialogue, I learn so much.

              Best wishes, Russell.
              Certainly agree with that!

              I must also agree with the subject of the thread- there are some very "ordinary" coffees served in Perth - and the truly great cafes are few and far between

              The other thing which is missing - as evidenced by the site sponsors here - is passionate suppliers of coffee machines to those of us "Snobs" over here in the west. The degree of after sales support which those of you on the eastern seaboard enjoy makes me really envious.

              At least (judging by the comments from satisfied clients of the site sponsors) we can order equipment from the sponsors over east and get good support - even if only by email.

              There is still little or no opportunity for we Sandgropers to "try before you buy" ------ maybe one day :

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Different perspective on the pros/cons of Silv

                Originally posted by JavaB link=1157354136/0#6 date=1157372882
                The other thing which is missing - as evidenced by the site sponsors here - is passionate suppliers of coffee machines to those of us "Snobs" over here in the west. The degree of after sales support which those of you on the eastern seaboard enjoy makes me really envious.

                There is still little or no opportunity for we Sandgropers to "try before you buy" ------ maybe one day :
                Hi JB,

                I think you should drop Grant a PM... http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?ac...send;to=wattgn, he has established some contacts with very willing vendors around the Perth area and it might be worth your while to check them out,

                Mal.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Different perspective on the pros/cons of Silv

                  Quick! Destroy the thread-----theres a danger it exposes we snobs as...snobs about nought.

                  Robusto

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Different perspective on the pros/cons of Silv


                    An interesting article, but not one I necessarily agree with in all respects. The CG thread that it references shows that opinion is divided on the matter of crema. I tend to favour Alan in this respect, but my experience is limited. However people like Luca, who have direct experience with a range of commercial machines including the Synesso seem to feel that this new technology is taking coffee somewhere. But then again maybe its not. The Italians may have years of research and development behind them, but that doesnt mean the rest of the world will take 60 years to catch up. For example the guy who founded Synesso used to be an engineer with La Marzocco, so has taken much of the Italian expertise with him and built on it. Coffee machines arent rocket science. Its not hard to figure out how they tick and improve on them. However market forces, not coffee fanatics, will ultimately
                    determine where coffee machine development is heading. As the US represents a potentially huge market, its not unreasonable that they may start influencing things.

                    Sure there is much hype and myth out there. The E61 phenomenon is a case in point. Even Faema have moved on from the E61 group over 40 years ago. Im not saying its redundant, but its not necessarily the best either (although it does have some nice features).

                    One area I find troublesome with Alans reports is his thermometry. Measuring the temperature in the cup is most certainly a poor way of looking at thermal reproduceability. For example Ive looked at the temeprature of the Silvia group (after running it for more than 24 hours to make sure its up to temperature) and find it fluctuates wildly with the thermostat cycling. I have a few logs of these thermal cycles. That means the brewing temperature will cycle even more. This is the main reason for temperature surfing or fitting a PID controller. Ive seen brew temperatures in the low to mid 80s up to mid to high 90s. Thats a huge swing. I just cant understand Alan not being able to taste a difference, because even I can. Low temp = sour, high temp = bitter. With a PID on my Classic I experimented with temperature a lot and these regimes were quite repeatable.

                    I find Alan to be a great and respected voice in the coffee industry. In one sense hes a bit of a contradiction; on one hand holding the words of Illy sacred above all else, which suggests conservatism, but then hes willing to accept new technological developments without prejudice. I thought Id never hear the day when a coffee connoiseur would find a superautomatic produces acceptable espresso (and a Sunbeam no less).

                    Interesting and controversial.

                    Cheers,

                    Mark.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Different perspective on the pros/cons of Silv

                      Im not at expert on the thermodynamic/chemistry juxtaposition that delivers a great espresso - I do have preconceptions as to what one should look like and might look askance at a shot without good crema. However, Ill trust my palate over my eyes every time when it comes to knowing a good shot (yes I know the visual is part of the determining characterstics etc.).

                      Im also intensely curious and willing to try new coffee experiences, that for me is half the fun. Im looking forward to trying a shot from the Synesso - If I dont like it Ill sample a few more to be sure then not bother again - but to not try it at all would be to miss the adventure!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Different perspective on the pros/cons of Silv

                        My palate still is quite new to the nuances of different coffees but I have been lucky of late to have a few shots made for me on a Synesso and theyve all been good (to my taste).

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Different perspective on the pros/cons of Silv

                          Thought Alans newsletter might provoke some interesting discussion :P,

                          Mal.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Different perspective on the pros/cons of Silv


                            Alans take on the Silvia reminds me of the Red Beard Rum episode of Blackadder:

                            Dont you have to temperature surf Silvia for best results? - Opinion is divided on the matter. Everyone else says you do. I say you dont.....

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Different perspective on the pros/cons of Silv

                              Originally posted by Sparky link=1157354136/0#13 date=1157500386
                              Dont you have to temperature surf Silvia for best results? - Opinion is divided on the matter. Everyone else says you do. I say you dont.....
                              LMAO ;D ,

                              Good one Sparky, I knew it reminded me of something..... :,

                              Mal.

                              Comment

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