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La Cimbali M31

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  • La Cimbali M31

    does anyone have any instructions, manuals and wiring diagrams for one of these?

    I bought this machine at an auction for $200 a month or so ago. it was a bit of an impulse thing, it was clearly not in working order but thought i would get it and have a look.

    I finally got to have a look at it on Sunday. the fitting for one of the steam arms has popped off and Im pretty sure the element is blown but I havent been able to test it yet. the power was disconnected from the switch, Im pretty sure I have the wiring correct but as there is a duplication of the phases (it can either be wired as 3 or single phase) I was waiting for an electircian friend to come and confirm some things for me.

    a couple of photos






  • #2
    Re: La Cimbali M31

    another

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    • #3
      Re: La Cimbali M31

      side panel off

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      • #4
        Re: La Cimbali M31

        fired element and cocky. I dont think he caused it was probaly in the wrong place at the wrong time

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        • #5
          Re: La Cimbali M31

          does anyone know what the knob on the far right is for, looks like it primes the pump?? its a bit hard to tell as that end of the machine is completely covered in milk residue.

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          • #6
            Re: La Cimbali M31

            Clinto,

            I have the M27 and M28 manuals (thanks to Javaphile) and, whilst not for your model, I found them very helpful for my M20....

            If you would like a copy PM me your email address.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: La Cimbali M31

              Originally posted by Clinto link=1162806123/0#4 date=1162806334
              does anyone know what the knob on the far right is for, looks like it primes the pump?? its a bit hard to tell as that end of the machine is completely covered in milk residue.
              Yep

              It is the manual fill lever, pull it out, push it down and mains pressure will fill the boiler!

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: La Cimbali M31

                Clinto,

                If you are going to run the unit on 240 you will need to either only use one of the 3 elements or have a special run installed...

                My 2 group needs 20+ amps at 240V (3900w heater)... yours is a 5800W heater- just the heater alone needs 24 Amps- so probably a 30 A run from the fusebox...

                If you only use one heater it will take forever to walm up.... and the recovery time will be poor. But only one heater will draw 8 amps.... you might just squeeze it into a 10 Amp outlet (Id recommend a 15 Amp)

                Its a big beastie.... and very hungry (my 2 group is bad enough )

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: La Cimbali M31

                  You might wander around this site for guidance,
                  http://www.espresso-restorations.com/index.html
                  Tepin

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                  • #10
                    Re: La Cimbali M31

                    There should be a wiring diagram on the inside of the left panel showing the various ways the unit can be configured.


                    Java "Loves his Cimbali" phile
                    Toys! I must have new toys!!!

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                    • #11
                      Re: La Cimbali M31

                      Thanks for the replies ( I went to the races yesterday so didnt get around to replying)

                      I was planning on using the machine as a secondary one. we have bought an apartment which is under construction. it will have a large balcony with about 4.5m bench which will have a sink and BBQ built in. there will be sufficient room for a coffeemachine so i had been toying with the idea of getting a 2 group commercial (maybe a retro looking one) and installing it on the balcony. i would then turn it on friday night and turn it off sunday night and just use it on the weekend with the minore used during the week as it doesnt take as long to heat up. the La cimbali was an impulse buy (i went to the auction for a grinder) it just seemed cheap so I thought I would take a punt. may be that I sell it later and get a two group machine.

                      I have arranged for a 15 amp plug out for the balcony.

                      this machine was wired as single phase (only had 3 wires). it came with a 1.5m long elect cable but the plug had been removed and it was disconnected at the machine switch. I presume it was at least 20amp by the look of the cables.

                      I was planning on getting the smaller heater element, or perhaps the correct sized one and just not running all the elements (that way if i was to resell it later it can easily be reconnected).

                      Heat up time wont be an issue, recovery might though, but the most consequtive shots I would pull would be 8, so would recovery time still be ok?

                      the machine also has a cup heater element which I thought I would disconnect.

                      the other thing I was contemplating was wiring it so that the element cuts out when the pump is running. Not feasible for a comercial environment but should be ok for home use, that way I would limit the power draw to the element.

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                      • #12
                        Re: La Cimbali M31

                        Originally posted by Clinto link=1162806123/0#10 date=1162948990

                        the La cimbali was an impulse buy (i went to the auction for a grinder) it just seemed cheap so I thought I would take a punt. may be that I sell it later and get a two group machine.
                        Clinto,

                        Ive emailed you the manuals.

                        The La Cimbalis are excellent machines, very well built, solid (as Im sure you already know) and make great espresso etc... You got a real bargin at that price.

                        this machine was wired as single phase (only had 3 wires). it came with a 1.5m long elect cable but the plug had been removed and it was disconnected at the machine switch. I presume it was at least 20amp by the look of the cables.
                        It would have had a 30 Amp supply if all elements were used.... sometimes only 2 elements are on single phase and would then have needed about a 20 Amp supply.

                        I was planning on getting the smaller heater element, or perhaps the correct sized one and just not running all the elements (that way if i was to resell it later it can easily be reconnected).
                        Id go down the path of using less of the elements (probably only 1 in your case) as lower powered elements are even shorter and would mess up the thermodynamics of the machine even more (than only using 1 element would) and could make the unit less attractive to others.

                        Heat up time wont be an issue, recovery might though, but the most consequtive shots I would pull would be 8, so would recovery time still be ok?
                        Heat up time with one element will be about 1 Hr + whilst recovery time will be about 1 minute (based on tests I did with mine whilst refurbishing it - I only had a 15Amp supply in the shed)

                        From your description the heatup time wont be an issue.... and you could probably live with the 1 minute (mine takes about 15 seconds!) for recovery.

                        the machine also has a cup heater element which I thought I would disconnect.
                        Good idea..... believe me you WONT need that.... the boiler heat loss is plenty to walm a truck load of cups!

                        the other thing I was contemplating was wiring it so that the element cuts out when the pump is running. Not feasible for a comercial environment but should be ok for home use, that way I would limit the power draw to the element.
                        Probably not worth the effort.... You wont save enough current draw to enable more elements to be run (8 amp per element)..... 2 elements would need 16 Amps plus heat up surge.... probably a bit too much for a 15 Amp circuit.... If you went to 20 Amps you could run 2 elements and the pump... a better solution!

                        And dont run the pump without the water supply connected... That will kill it real fast (and cost you more than the machine did for a replacement!!! :-[

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: La Cimbali M31

                          thanks

                          yeh its a struggle for two people to lift, slthough the boiler is still 1/2 full so there are a couple of kilos there.

                          as you say the full 3 elements is probably the best bet and the part isnt a great deal more expensive than the single.

                          i think a 30amp run will be too much to ask from the builder. i had to go over the project managers head to get 15amps. they were trying to tell me that puting a 15amp plug on my balcony would cause the power dome on the street to blow. I eventually got them to call their electrician and they said they would do it. but I think 30 amps would be pushing the friendship.

                          can i ask how you define the recovery, how many shots would that be after?

                          good point re element cut out. I was thinking at 8amps I could get away with 16amps draw as they generally have a 30amp fuse on a 15amp socket (its 20 on a 10amp one) so i thought I could get away with a 16 amp draw, but i didnt factor in the startup surge, may be a bit too much. I might give it a try on the bench though. its currently at my parents factory unit which serves as a store room/shed for my dad and me. it has 3 phase and 15amp so I can test it out and check the current draws there on both without worrying about burning down my house.

                          i havent gotten around to testing the pump yet, still trying to get all the panels and trim off. One complaint though, they have used stainless scews/bolts but zinc plated threaded clips on the frame. the stainless hasnt rusted but the zinc has. there are about 2 screws that I cant get out. I can get the impact driver in there, but dont have room to swing a hammer. It might be a job for the trusty dremel.

                          Also one other question, does the knob for the main power switch simply pull off or is it screwed on? the others pulled off but this one wont come off. it does have a hole in the middle so i was thinking it might be screwed on, but I didnt have a screwdriver small enough at the unit to check.

                          Clint

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                          • #14
                            Re: La Cimbali M31

                            Originally posted by Clinto link=1162806123/0#12 date=1162959894
                            thanks

                            as you say the full 3 elements is probably the best bet and the part isnt a great deal more expensive than the single.

                            can i ask how you define the recovery, how many shots would that be after?
                            OK recovery time...... it would be lots of shots if making espressos as you will have something like 24 litres of water in the boiler at 120 deg C and you are only removing enough heat to raise 60ml to 93 deg C....

                            But more of a problem texturing milk..... The heater cuts in once the boiler pressure drops below about 1 Bar..... part the way into a jug..... mine is back to full pressure in about 14 seconds..... so I can just keep frothing- both outlets if I wish.... and of course it will depend if the heater has just switched off or is about to switch on when you start to texture.

                            With yours at 8 amps you would have to wait about a minute for it to recover to full pressure (there would be plenty of steam to texture the first jug of milk).

                            Also one other question, does the knob for the main power switch simply pull off or is it screwed on? the others pulled off but this one wont come off.
                            My power switch knob just pulls off... and as far as I know that is the same for all models....
                            Probably just a lot of coffee oils, grounds and other gunk holding it on.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: La Cimbali M31

                              Originally posted by Clinto link=1162806123/0#12 date=1162959894
                              good point re element cut out.  I was thinking at 8amps I could get away with 16amps draw as they generally have a 30amp fuse on a 15amp socket (its 20 on a 10amp one) so i thought I could get away with a 16 amp draw, but i didnt factor in the startup surge, may be a bit too much.  I might give it a try on the bench though.  its currently at my parents factory unit which serves as a store room/shed for my dad and me.  it has 3 phase and 15amp so I can test it out and check the current draws there on both without worrying about burning down my house.
                              Clint
                              Gday Clint,
                              In relation to the 20 Amp fuse rating on the 10 Amp outlet circuits.
                              This rating is used as there is more than one outlet on the circuit. If there were only one 10 Amp outlet on the circuit, the fuse would be rated at 10 Amps. This holds true for the 15 Amp outlet as well. As it looks like the sparky will be doing a special run for this outlet, the fuse will probably be a 15 amp one.
                              There is a forumla that determines how many outlets can be used, taking into account the cable size, the type of circuit protection (fuse or circuit breaker), the type of (if any) insulation that the cable has to pass through.
                              In relation to the startup surge. The heating elements are a resistive load and dont have a in-rush current on startup. The pump motor on the other hand is an inductive load (there is virtually no resistance until the motor is up and running). The current draw for this is approx. 7 times the rated current on start up.
                              For example, if the motor is rated at 480 Watts the running current is 2 Amps, the startup current could be as high as 14 Amps.
                              Hope this helps.

                              Comment

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