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Gaggia Classic begginer - extraction problems

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  • dsc
    replied
    Re: Gaggia Classic begginer - extraction problems

    Ola

    Oh ok now I get it, thanks for the explanation. I will have to look in my local shops and check if its possible to buy this thing here. If not I will have to but it online.

    Cheers,
    dsc.

    Leave a comment:


  • Thundergod
    replied
    Re: Gaggia Classic begginer - extraction problems

    By side vents we mean side of the roasting chamber, so that the beans are rotated by the heated air as you look down into the chamber (just like in the video you posted - (some nice Coltrane background music there)).

    My popper has vents underneath to let the air in, thats OK.

    Leave a comment:


  • dsc
    replied
    Re: Gaggia Classic begginer - extraction problems

    Ola

    I followed your link and found a cool video which shows roasting with a popcorn popper:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5iyckk6jH8&mode=related&search=

    Looks easy I might try it in a few days, just have to buy me some green beans.

    I still have to find a popper that has side air vents, it seems that most of them have bottom ones. I understand they are bad cause the air isnt circulating so much as in side air vents models right?

    Cheers,
    dsc.

    Leave a comment:


  • lucinda
    replied
    Re: Gaggia Classic begginer - extraction problems

    To give you a quick answer re roasting equipment, also get yourself a thermocouple and a stop watch of some sort, to time your roast and note the temperatures of first and second crack. I have found the popper a great thing to use. If I did the Heat Gun (HG) thing I would burn myself as I have a tendency for that sort of thing ;D

    Also when loking for a popper, make sure the air vents (inside the chamber) are in the side and not in the bottom. If you havent been there already, have a read of the roasting tips and tricks section of the forum. Have a looke here http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1165120099/3#3 for some popper discussion and a nice little video of a popper roasting.

    I got some single roasted beans with my grinder and have found that I need a finer grind and need to overdose more to stop channeling etc.

    Like you have noticed, dosing to the point that the pf handle is hard to put in seems to get the best results. Though, I would think that doing this with too fine a grind may put too much strain on the pump.

    Leave a comment:


  • Thundergod
    replied
    Re: Gaggia Classic begginer - extraction problems

    A popper is a cheap easy way to start and theres plenty of info on this forum to help.

    Leave a comment:


  • dsc
    replied
    Re: Gaggia Classic begginer - extraction problems

    Hi lucinda

    Well today I tried overdosing again and I stuffed so much coffee into the PF (too many taps on the counter with my PF) that I had difficulties locking it in the group. The flow blonded and went watery around the 18s, so it has to be the coffee being old. I was surprised to see that no side channeling appeared, as it was a really tight fit.

    Im really thinking about home roasting coffee Lucinda what do you use at home? is a popcorn popper enough for a start? I saw some cheap ones for 20$.

    Cheers,
    dsc.

    Leave a comment:


  • lucinda
    replied
    Re: Gaggia Classic begginer - extraction problems

    I have found that I get a better result on overdosing, so I get the shower screen impression. I am currently weighing my dose and have found about 20 - 21g of coffee beans is the best dose. I also half fill the basket with grounds, tamp and then add the rest of the grounds and tamp again. I have been getting perfect extractions every time using this method. My puck also comes out dry and firm with no channeling either.

    If I use a finer grind my machine takes too long for the extraction to start and the coffee tastes a little burnt.

    Mind you - I am also using my home roasted beans so when I pick up my other 500g beans tomorrow I can see how they go using the same method.

    Leave a comment:


  • dsc
    replied
    Re: Gaggia Classic begginer - extraction problems

    Ola lucinda

    I wanted to ask you one thing, how much coffee do you usually use? Do you overdose your basket, so that you get a shower screen impression on your coffee puck after brewing, or do you use less coffee but with a finer grind?

    I ask because Im testing the "grind finer use less coffee" method and it works pretty well. Unfortunatelly my coffee beans ended yesterday and Im left with some old as dirt coffee from Saeco (dont use it)

    Cheers,
    dsc.

    Leave a comment:


  • lucinda
    replied
    Re: Gaggia Classic begginer - extraction problems

    Tom,
    To give you a comparison on the difference in grinders, I have found that my MDF gives best results on 5. 4 was just a bit on the fine side and 6 was far too coarse. I tried this with both home roasted and the beans I got with the grinder. The home roasted beans actually gave a better result than the others.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dimal
    replied
    Re: Gaggia Classic begginer - extraction problems

    Originally posted by dsc link=1166313709/30#33 date=1166640745
    Mal: yeah when I dose, the puck doesnt touch the shower screen but its really close, so I guess its ok.
    Gday Tom,

    If you can get the dose such that the puck just kisses the shower screen then that is the "ideal" and still worth trying for in my view.

    Originally posted by dsc link=1166313709/30#33 date=1166640745
    I have one question, is the 25-27s limit counted from the moment I hit the brew switch or from the moment the coffee starts to flow?
    Well, I used to start right from when I hit the "Brew" switch but these days, Im more concerned with just watching the shot stream and stopping it before blonding starts. This always ends up in the region of 25-30 seconds for a 60ml (double) pour but I only drag the stop-watch out about once per month or so these days, to make sure my guesstimates are still within the 25-30 second range.

    Its much more important to stop your shot before the blonding starts rather than getting too tied down to the idea that all shots must be pulled in exactly 25 seconds. In reality, I guess some of my shots will go out to 35 seconds and some will be pulled up in 20 seconds, Im not that fussed so long as the shot is a good one

    Originally posted by dsc link=1166313709/30#33 date=1166640745
    Also how much water should my OPV give back into the tank when I use a blank basket? I have it around 95ml/30s, is that ok? I ask because some people say its not ok to change the settings of the OPV (its strange cause most Classics come with the OPV set to around 13-14 bars, why would the factory set it that way?). Im wondering cause right now its really easy to choke my Classic and I wonder if it has to do smth with my OPV mod.
    Im not sure what the actual setting is, but if you go to the Ulka website they have a range of charts for all of their pumps and it is then just a matter to follow the particular curve for your pump and note where the intersect is for the pressure setting of 8.5-9.0 BAR. Your setting of 95ml in 30 seconds is definitely in the ballpark Id say, but without knowing the model of the pump fitted to your Classic, its hard to say. If the OPV setting is a little low for your particular pump model then this could cause the machine to apparently choke before it should.

    I used to be in the camp of nay-sayers when it came to fiddling around with the OPV on any machine, as its primary purpose is to protect the pump not limit the system pressure to the "ideal" for pulling shots. All this works fine for standard shots where the requisite 30/60ml is poured in the 25-30 seconds.

    However, if you like pulling the occasional Ristretto or like a slightly restricted shot of just 40-50ml for example, unless you adjust the OPV to limit the maximum pressure to the ideal of 8.5-9.0 BAR, then the system pressure will rise until such time as the OPV cracks open (on its original setting) or water can be forced through the coffee puck. This does not produce a very nice Ristretto as the resulting shot ends up being poured at the original cracking pressure of the OPV and thus tastes bitter and burnt, not sweet and syrupy as it should if the brew pressure was maintained at 9.0 BAR say.

    Hope some of this helps you out Tom. All the best, and

    Cheerio,
    Mal.

    Leave a comment:


  • dsc
    replied
    Re: Gaggia Classic begginer - extraction problems

    Ola mates

    Thundergod: yeah I plan to use a wooden base, this is just a temporary thing.

    marcstolk: I know that the first solution to premature blonding is to get the grind finer. But sadly if I get it finer I dont get 60ml/25s I only get around half of that. Today I tried using a finer grind and it gave a nice thin stream of coffee, but around the 15s it still got blond (I used less coffee so that its easier to get 60ml/25s), so I tried more coffee. With more coffee, finer grind and lighter tamping I still got less than 60ml/25s:| Im ordering some fresh coffee today and maybe this will make things easier.

    Mal: yeah when I dose, the puck doesnt touch the shower screen but its really close, so I guess its ok. I have one question, is the 25-27s limit counted from the moment I hit the brew switch or from the moment the coffee starts to flow? Also how much water should my OPV give back into the tank when I use a blank basket? I have it around 95ml/30s, is that ok? I ask because some people say its not ok to change the settings of the OPV (its strange cause most Classics come with the OPV set to around 13-14 bars, why would the factory set it that way?). Im wondering cause right now its really easy to choke my Classic and I wonder if it has to do smth with my OPV mod.

    Cheers and thanks for help,
    dsc.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dimal
    replied
    Re: Gaggia Classic begginer - extraction problems

    Originally posted by dsc link=1166313709/15#29 date=1166566359
    I thought about the fact that I get only around 10ml in 30s when using a finer grind and maybe Im packing too much coffee into the basket? I once checked how much coffee is in a full leveled basket and it was around 17g instead of 14g. Maybe I should use less coffee?
    Hi again Tom,

    You dont want to get too hung up on the weight of coffee in the basket, its more important that the volume is correct, i.e. the tamped coffee just kisses the Shower-screen when the PF is locked and ready to pull a shot. The idea of 7/14 grams of coffee is a guide only, not gospel.

    Just to refer back to the Pour Video, it really doesnt look all that bad. Id probably stop it earlier than you did for something I was going to drink but as you said, this was intended to illustrate the whole pour cycle of your machine. When you can get access to some good quality, freshly roasted beans to try, I think all will be revealed. Trying to extract ideal shots from coffee that is past its prime is a difficult call and the fresh coffee will make all the difference.

    All the best mate,
    Mal.

    Leave a comment:


  • marcstolk
    replied
    Re: Gaggia Classic begginer - extraction problems

    Actually, early blonding I take it as Under Extraction... which means you need either Fresh Beans and /\/or a finer grind or updosing... or you are under dosing... but by the look of your pucks, your dosing looks good..so its either stale coffee or your grind is too course...

    Do yourself a favour and buy some fresh beans... youll be blown away by the difference...

    Leave a comment:


  • Thundergod
    replied
    Re: Gaggia Classic begginer - extraction problems

    Id want my grinder a bit more stable.
    Maybe you could look for something better to sit it on.

    As for 17g instead of 14g, no problem.
    I prefer to updose. It seems to me to make it easier to get a better shot.

    Leave a comment:


  • dsc
    replied
    Re: Gaggia Classic begginer - extraction problems

    Ola again

    Wow! Im amazed at the ammount of replies I got here, this is truly a very friendly place

    lucinda: yes I heard that the Classic can be fairly demanding when it comes to the freshness of beans. As for the early blonding it is kind of wierd cause it happends around 7 seconds after the coffee starts to flow, so it is really premature. I know I left it for too long on the movie, just wanted to show how the extraction looks after 30s.

    Thundergod: the grinder is standing on a piece of styrofoam packing thats why it wobbles som much. I tried to use the fork for holding the PF but it not very comfortable, plus the coffee tends to fall out to the left, which made the grinding a bit messy (and I wasnt able to rotate the PF to achieve an even distribution). So I build a small extention from PVC and placed the grinder a bit higher, so I can put the PF under the fork.

    early_morning_: I usually let the machine warm up for around 30min and I do a cooling flush before pulling a shot. That shot on the movie was infact a 17s shot as the coffee started flowing 7-8s after hitting the switch.
    How does your extractions look like? is the pour solid and thin like it should be? no premature blonding?
    My local coffee places usually serve crappy espresso and I guess my "extractions" are better than theirs. Sadly I have no places where I can go to taste a good espresso:|


    I thought about the fact that I get only around 10ml in 30s when using a finer grind and maybe Im packing too much coffee into the basket? I once checked how much coffee is in a full leveled basket and it was around 17g instead of 14g. Maybe I should use less coffee?

    Thanks for your ideas and
    Take care,
    dsc.

    Leave a comment:

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