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  • Dosing

    Hi Guys,

    I currently use a Azkoyen Vienna machine at work with Rancilio PFs and baskets. This machine has been paired up with a Super Jolly.

    Currently I dose a double basket with 20g of coffee and tamp consistently, with the grinder set to the coarser side of the mazzer markings on the collar. When I say coarse, I only mean it lies in the "coarse" region by only a few millimeters but the grind is by no means coarse. The zero setting on the grinder is way too fine!

    My question is, am I over dosing this double basket too much? I found today that most of my shots were burnt! I take the 30sec/30mL rule with a grain of salt. Its the quality in the end of the cup that matters. But usually Im spot on with my 30mL pours coming in at around 27/28 seconds. the puck is usually very wet with some signs of channeling.

    Should I readjust the doser to give say 18 or 19grams of coffee rather than 20? The only reason I dose so much is because I seem to get blonding at say the 17 to 20 second mark of the pour.

    As an aside, I have no problems locking in the PF at 20g but anymore and I will unable to....The Azkoyen Vienna seems to have a very high group in stark contrast to Expobars which have very low groups.

    Cheers,

    Dave

  • #2
    Re: Dosing

    Originally posted by Wushoes link=1166784819/0#0 date=1166784819
    Currently I dose a double basket with 20g of coffee and tamp consistently
    Originally posted by Wushoes link=1166784819/0#0 date=1166784819
    usually Im spot on with my 30mL pours coming in at around 27/28 seconds. the puck is usually very wet with some signs of channeling.
    This would be a Ristretto at only 30ml from a double basket, is this your intention?

    Originally posted by Wushoes link=1166784819/0#0 date=1166784819
    Should I readjust the doser to give say 18 or 19grams of coffee rather than 20?
    I wouldnt do this unless youre having difficulty locking the PF in place properly.

    Originally posted by Wushoes link=1166784819/0#0 date=1166784819
    The only reason I dose so much is because I seem to get blonding at say the 17 to 20 second mark of the pour.
    Pulling a Ristretto and getting Blonding at 17-20 seconds :-? What kind of coffee are you using, roast profile, etc?

    Originally posted by Wushoes link=1166784819/0#0 date=1166784819
    I have no problems locking in the PF at 20g but anymore and I will unable to....
    How much force is required to achieve this? Just a normal amount or more than normal?

    Mal.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Dosing

      Is the machine a HX? You running a cooling flush or temperature surfing?

      I would say if anything you are under dosing going by a wet, soggy puck.. it should be nice and firm, yet have a bit of bounce like a tennis court (see picture attached)..would packing more coffee in make you unable to lock the portafilter in?



      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Dosing

        the grinder set to the coarser side of the mazzer markings on the collar. When I say coarse, I only mean it lies in the "coarse" region by only a few millimeters but the grind is by no means coarse. The zero setting on the grinder is way too fine!

        By the way... do you ever adjust your grind?

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Dosing

          Originally posted by Wushoes link=1166784819/0#0 date=1166784819
          I found today that most of my shots were burnt!
          ...

          the puck is usually very wet with some signs of channeling.

          ...

          Should I readjust the doser to give say 18 or 19grams of coffee rather than 20?
          Hey mate, am I wrong in guessing that youre grinding your coffee first, then dosing 1 or 2 clicks into the portafilter, then tamping?

          Ive found that my mazzer (depending on the coffee and the humidity) will sometimes produce clumpy grinds, that can take on the shape of the doser bits. When the grinds fall into the basket, theyre clumped up heaps.

          I found in the past, that this, coupled with updosing, caused heaps of channelling, uneven extractions, and burnt tasting coffee. (Naked portafilters are wonderful for these discoveries!)

          My suggestion: Grind per shot, as you dose. That is, hold your portafilter in position, turn on the grinder, and start flicking the doser as the coffee is grinding.

          The reason for this is that the coffee clumps will get broken up.

          Keep grinding and dosing until the basket is heaped and full, use the side of your finger to evenly distibute the grinds. Tap the pf on the bench a couple of times if you need to updose a bit, do the swipe/tamp thing etc etc.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Dosing

            1) i mean 30mL per spout...so 60mL total
            2) no extra force required to lock in 20g of coffee
            3) i always grind per shot and adjust the grinder as much as 15 times a day during my 8 to 9 hour shifts with a dialing in time when i first start my shift
            3) i use an azkoyen vienna....commercial 17 or 18L boiler machine...always pull a cooling flush...so no water sizzles out of the group

            off to work now.....bye

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Dosing

              You shouldnt have a wet puck. If you do you are under dosing.
              If you do a cooling flush and you still burn the coffee then you might want to check the water temp that hits the coffee. Make sure that the pressure gauge is in the right zone when you pull the shot.
              You seem to be doing the right things, mate.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Dosing

                Originally posted by Wushoes link=1166784819/0#5 date=1166819089
                1) i mean 30mL per spout...so 60mL total
                2) no extra force required to lock in 20g of coffee
                3) i always grind per shot and adjust the grinder as much as 15 times  a day during my 8 to 9 hour shifts with a dialing in time when i first start my shift
                3) i use an azkoyen vienna....commercial 17 or 18L boiler machine...always pull a cooling flush...so no water sizzles out of the group

                off to work now.....bye
                Probably silly questions- how long is your flush- maybe extend it a bit past the time the water stops sizzling and dancing?
                Do you leave the handle in place long before you start the extraction?
                Is the machine being used commercially? If so, do things get better when you are pulling a succession of shots?
                If commercial, is everyone experiencing the same burning? Ive heard azkoyens run hot but that doesnt sound right- how long since the machine was last serviced?
                Brett

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Dosing

                  I use the Azkoyen in a cafe. I knew the machine was running hot...just wanted to confirm it.

                  Doesnt matter if I dose 16, 18, 19, 20 or 21 grams....wet puck! heaps of clearance on the head.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Dosing

                    Try a tiny bit coarser. If Im dosing the same mass per shot, and the grind is slightly too fine, Ill get a soggy puck every time. Youre essentially 1mm away or so.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Wushoes View Post
                      1) i mean 30mL per spout...so 60mL total
                      2) no extra force required to lock in 20g of coffee
                      3) i always grind per shot and adjust the grinder as much as 15 times a day during my 8 to 9 hour shifts with a dialing in time when i first start my shift
                      3) i use an azkoyen vienna....commercial 17 or 18L boiler machine...always pull a cooling flush...so no water sizzles out of the group

                      off to work now.....bye

                      Sorry to resurrect this thread but I'm a little confused as to dosing using a double basket.

                      So if I'm using a double basket with say 20g of coffee in it do I use the parameter 60mls in 30 seconds?

                      sorry, newbie here.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Better check the dosing amount for your basket.
                        My stock double basket is only 15g for the Silvia and anymore I just end up making a mess. I also bought a vST double basket that's for 20g and is huge compare to the stock ones.

                        I adjust my grind for each basket to pour 60ml in 25-30sec (or 30ml from each side to 2 cups)

                        The larger basket (20g) need a courser grind to pull the right time while the smaller basket needs a finer grind.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Yep, that's about it Draeger, give or take a few mls or seconds. The idea is normally to stop the pour just as it starts to turn blonde. Ideally that will happen about 24-30 seconds from when you pull the lever. But, you can get some perfectly acceptable shots outside these times (particularly with slower pours).

                          EDIT: re okitoki's point... I easily fit 20g + in my standard double baskets (Synesso / La Marzcoc.) Normally dose close to 21g.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thanks okitoki. I forgot to mention I'm using a 20g VST basket.

                            So a double ristretto in a single 150 ml cup as base for a flat white would be 30 mls of that 60 mls? Is this correct?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
                              Yep, that's about it Draeger, give or take a few mls or seconds. The idea is normally to stop the pour just as it starts to turn blonde. Ideally that will happen about 24-30 seconds from when you pull the lever. But, you can get some perfectly acceptable shots outside these times (particularly with slower pours).

                              EDIT: re okitoki's point... I easily fit 20g + in my standard double baskets (Synesso / La Marzcoc.) Normally dose close to 21g.
                              Thanks Barry.

                              Comment

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