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Subject: The Point Of Entry? Sunbeam EM3800?

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  • gregpullman
    replied
    Re: Subject: The Point Of Entry? Sunbeam EM3800?

    If youre not in a hurry for a grinder (apart from itching to get started! ), Id also recommend keeping an eye on the for sale section of coffeesnobs, as good second hand grinders will often come up, and youll get more bang for your buck. Decent grinders are like decent machines - they rarely break if cared for almost irrespective of their age.

    Leave a comment:


  • lucinda
    replied
    Re: Subject: The Point Of Entry? Sunbeam EM3800?

    Originally posted by WadeBeger link=1176047623/0#12 date=1176116451
    So much information. My brain is dying.

    If I get an Iberital, will it grind fine for courser stuff (plunger etc..)?
    Ive heard it takes 12 or so revoltions to go from course to fine - Does it really take that long? Wouldnt it take 15ish seconds to turn that?
    With the MDF, being stepped you just set it on the number for a plunger and turn it on - then turn it off when all the coffee has been ground. It has a manual on/off switch so you are in complete control.


    The biggest problem is that there are so many different opinions, lol.
    Pros for dosers, cons for dosers and vice versa. Pros for moving up to Rocky, but then its stepped.. But its a higher quality grind? But then you cant adjust it as finely, so maybe you lose that quality? Iberital cant compete with Madcap/Mazzer and maybe worth moving up? But will I notice the difference at this stage? argh


    On a side note as well, where do people dose the coffee if they want to make plunger? Into the plunger?
    Yep, there are pros and cons to everything.  My advice is to work out what you need, what you want to/can afford to spend etc etc

    Ay present,  with using a plunger you could possibly be better off with the MDF as you do not have the turning issues that the Iberital has.

    When you decide to get a Machine the MDF will still be able to do the job  to suit a machine too.

    If you decide to upgrade to a mazzer, you will still be able to get a good price for your MDF (or Iberital if you get that)

    There are people here with high end machines who still use these grinders with no issues so really it is a matter of how soon you want to get your machine - a Mazzer is expensive.

    Leave a comment:


  • WadeBeger
    replied
    Re: Subject: The Point Of Entry? Sunbeam EM3800?

    Thanks again for the replies - Especially Ven for the last one.

    I am definately edging towards the Iberital.

    Are there two models of the Iberital as indicated in http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1163235531 ? "Manual model has on-off switch operation with traditional ground coffee dispenser. Automatic model grinds the coffee fresh and has a volume adjustment for amount of ground coffee required. "

    If so, the $300ish one is the manual one? How much more is the auto model and what are the pros of this?

    Wade

    Leave a comment:


  • Thundergod
    replied
    Re: Subject: The Point Of Entry? Sunbeam EM3800?

    On the question of moving up to a Macap/Mazzer, will you notice the difference;
    Do you need to try something of lesser quality to appreciate something better?

    If you had the choice of being given a BMW or small bottom of the range second hand car (typical for most teenagers) as your first vehicle, which would you take?

    Leave a comment:


  • Veneziano
    replied
    Re: Subject: The Point Of Entry? Sunbeam EM3800?

    Originally posted by WadeBeger link=1176047623/0#12 date=1176116451
    If I get an Iberital, will it grind fine for courser stuff (plunger etc..)?
    Sure will. In fact, I have borrowed a friends gridner with practically the same burr set, but with stepless adjustment, specifically for french press when travelling ... with fantastic results!

    Ive heard it takes 12 or so revoltions to go from course to fine - Does it really take that long? Wouldnt it take 15ish seconds to turn that?

    I certainly think stepless is the way to go, as it seems the only way to track various constantly changing variables.
    I havent done it recently, but, yes, it takes a helluva lot of turning that knob to go from plunger to espresso grind. Going back and forward is also hampered by the fact that the grind particle size indicator is a sticker that sits on the hopper, which can actually be twisted around without changing grind size ... so if you accidentally twist the hopper around, the number representing your espresso setting wont represent it any more. For these reasons, it is best not to plan on changing the grind frequently. If you want to change the grind frequently between french press and espresso on the one grinder, the "floating collar" design of the mazzers and imitated by the compaks is, IMHO, the best, but, of course, you pay for that.

    People have very different opinions on how important a stepless grinder is. My own opinion is that it is essential if you are the sort of person that wants to get the best out of every bean. Once you get your technique consistent - which can take a while - a stepless grinder allows you to use a finer grind and a lower dose or a coarser grind and a higher dose to achieve the same volume pour in the same time. Although the resultant espresso will look the same, the taste difference can sometimes be quite amazing. With a stepped grinder, you will often have to change your dose level to get the desired volume/time. Not only is it, IMHO, harder to adjust dose repeatably than it is to adjust grind particle size, but it will probably stop you from experimenting with different grind sizes and doses for the same volume/time pour. To give you some idea of how important this is to us, we bought a rather expensive commercial grinder that was fantasitic ... except for the steps ... so we had no qualms about bringing a drill to it to make our own stepless modification ;D However, in the interests of balance, I should point out that there are a bunch of people who dont see this as as much of an issue as I do.

    Quality wise the Iberital is good? I certainly would want it to last a while..
    "Good" is relative. Relative to a mazzer, the iberital is significantly lower quality. The mazzer should last a lifetime, with an occasional burr replacement. The iberital ... not so sure. You should get a few good years out of it, though. My concern with the iberital, IIRC, is that the burr carrier is made of some sort of plastic/resin material. Presumably this will wear and need to be replaced. However, in practice I have heard of grinders with similar burr carriers going well after four or five years.

    Also, what is the difference between manual and auto? Manual you have to turn off once you want it to finish grinding? Ive read the Iberital has a timing thing.. Does this mean it turns off at after its grinded what you set it to?
    Yep; pretty much a timed grind vs a grind that you stop manually.

    The biggest problem is that there are so many different opinions, lol.
    Pros for dosers, cons for dosers and vice versa.

    Pros for moving up to Rocky, but then its stepped.. But its a higher quality grind? But then you cant adjust it as finely, so maybe you lose that quality?
    I doubt very much that the Rocky grind quality will be better. I thought that the steps on my Rocky were enough of an irritation that I sold it last year and recommended against stocking it at work. The Rocky does seem to be more solid than the Iberital, though.

    On a side note as well, where do people dose the coffee if they want to make plunger? Into the plunger?
    Yep; I just grind right into the plunger.

    In summary; the Iberital is not a Mazzer. What it is is a grinder that delivers a very good quality grind and stepless adjustability for espresso. The drawbacks are balanced against quite an attractive price tag.

    Hope that helps,

    Luca

    Leave a comment:


  • WadeBeger
    replied
    Re: Subject: The Point Of Entry? Sunbeam EM3800?

    So much information. My brain is dying.

    If I get an Iberital, will it grind fine for courser stuff (plunger etc..)?
    Ive heard it takes 12 or so revoltions to go from course to fine - Does it really take that long? Wouldnt it take 15ish seconds to turn that?

    I certainly think stepless is the way to go, as it seems the only way to track various constantly changing variables.

    Quality wise the Iberital is good? I certainly would want it to last a while..

    Also, what is the difference between manual and auto? Manual you have to turn off once you want it to finish grinding? Ive read the Iberital has a timing thing.. Does this mean it turns off at after its grinded what you set it to?

    The biggest problem is that there are so many different opinions, lol.
    Pros for dosers, cons for dosers and vice versa. Pros for moving up to Rocky, but then its stepped.. But its a higher quality grind? But then you cant adjust it as finely, so maybe you lose that quality? Iberital cant compete with Madcap/Mazzer and maybe worth moving up? But will I notice the difference at this stage? argh

    On a side note as well, where do people dose the coffee if they want to make plunger? Into the plunger?

    Leave a comment:


  • lucinda
    replied
    Re: Subject: The Point Of Entry? Sunbeam EM3800?

    The only alternative to the Iberital is the Gaggia MDF. It is a stepped grinder and is a wee bit smaller in size to the Iberital. Some say that it has less flexibility than the Iberital in how fine you want your grind. I myself have not had any problems and have found it does a great job once I found the right setting for my machine.

    It is very sturdy as it has a metal casing so it is also on the heavy side.
    This is a photo of mine with my Classic which I use a lot and is a very good entry level espresso machine

    Leave a comment:


  • JavaB
    replied
    Re: Subject: The Point Of Entry? Sunbeam EM3800?

    Wade,

    The Iberital IS good value for money.... it has stepless grind adjustment (IMHO essential for good espresso) and is quite well made.....

    There are of course far better grinders... but they attract a far better price as well. The next one up is probably the Rocky which ia also a very capable grinder....

    Because the Iberital has a worm drive adjustment (ideal for small changes in espresso grind....) to make the large change required from plunger to espresso means lots and lots of turns of the adjustment knob.... by no means impossible..... just takes quite some time (some have even made up a crank handle to fit the knob to make adjustment faster 8-))

    But it certainly is a good grinder.

    Leave a comment:


  • WadeBeger
    replied
    Re: Subject: The Point Of Entry? Sunbeam EM3800?

    After a bit of thought, Ill certainly get a grinder first off. I probably wont be able to purchase a machine for a few months after this, but Im sure that will give me time to learn a bit about grinders.

    lucinda - That meet sounds cool. If you can, PM me the details or linkage of info and Ill certainly come along if Im free. Its probably on a Saturday though, and I work every Saturday, lol.

    For around the $250-300 mark, are there any better grinders than the Ibetital? Veneziano Caffe
    mentions its not as durable as some, however is this much of a hindrance?
    Once I move onto electric espresso, I will probably stay there for a while, however Im sure I may want a moka/plunger coffee now and then - Is it really that hard to change grinds dramatically accurately? (ie; fine to course)

    I might give Mark Barun and Simply Coffee a call to check prices on the Iberital. You have PM also Veneziano

    Wade

    Leave a comment:


  • lucinda
    replied
    Re: Subject: The Point Of Entry? Sunbeam EM3800?

    Wade, in Adelaide, you have two choices of people to contact.

    Mark Barun The coffee Barun, who is a site sponsor and Peter at Simply Coffee in Kent town. Both will be really helpful and you could get the Iberital challenge from either - although it may have to be ordered in.

    Failing that you could also get a Gaggia MDF, also about the same price as the Iberital, may even be cheaper at some places.

    As the next bean bay is coming up soon and we will more than likely be using Simply Coffee as a pick up point, come along oon the day that other CSers get together and have a chat with us all.

    As for machines, I would stick to the plunger, or even stove top (moka pot) for now and save up for Miss Sylvia or if you do not have the patience a Gaggia Classic which is currently sitting around the $550 - $600 mark.

    To be honest, at entry level the Gaggia is possibly the minimum you could consider if you want an Italian built machine.



    Leave a comment:


  • Thundergod
    replied
    Re: Subject: The Point Of Entry? Sunbeam EM3800?

    Hi Wade,

    Welcome to Coffee Snobs.

    Ill second (or is that third or fourth?) the others in recommending a good grinder first if your budget is tight for now.

    From what Ive read and other CSers with them have told me, the Iberital is indeed the starting point at the lower price end of the grinder market. In other words, most cheaper ones wont do the job for espresso.

    Good luck on your continuing coffee journey.

    Leave a comment:


  • Veneziano
    replied
    Re: Subject: The Point Of Entry? Sunbeam EM3800?

    Hi Wade,

    Ill be that you notice a dramatic increase in bitterness across the week.

    I think that I recommended the Iberital to you on your coffeegeek post ...

    The pros of the iberital challenge delivers a fantastic grind and gives you very fine adjustment. The cons are that it is slow, noisy and is not as durable as a small commercial grinder. The fine adjustment that the knob allows is a double-edged sword; although you can really zero in on the correct grind for espresso, it takes a lot of turning of the knob to go back and forward between espresso and french press. If your plan is to buy this grinder and use it for french press, then switch it exclusively to espresso when you get a machine later down the track, this grinder will be a perfect fit.

    We think that it is the best offer below six or seven hundred dollars and because it is relatively cheap it has been flying off the shelves. Our next shipment is overdue and should be here any day now. We would be happy to sell you one when they arrive. The price will be between $250 to $300; we wont know until we get the invoice with the delivery.

    Cheers,

    Luca

    Leave a comment:


  • WadeBeger
    replied
    Re: Subject: The Point Of Entry? Sunbeam EM3800?

    Thanks for all the replies

    I dislike the idea of the machine having a pressurised portafilter basket, so that certainly has me straying now Ive read that.

    This is a very similar situation to my photography hobby. When I started playing with cameras a few years ago, every forum yelled to get a better lens, rather than a better body.

    I do indeed like the idea of being able to grind my own beans. Currently I get mine grinded fresh in the city and put them into a air-tight container, however it might take me a week to use 250gm..

    Ive read a bit about the Iberital (Challenge?) grinder. Would that be recommended if I could stretch my budget that far? What sort of price should I be paying? Any reccommended place to go in Adelaide or a good online reseller?

    Thanks again guys

    Wade

    Leave a comment:


  • Matt_King
    replied
    Re: Subject: The Point Of Entry? Sunbeam EM3800?

    Hi Wade. I started with a Sunbeam EM5800 before joining this site, and Ill agree with the others above. I sold the machine because I moved overseas, but with some work it could produce reasonably good drinks (better than most cafes).

    Of course, to do that involved home roasting for freshness, and a grinder, and some machine mods (eg de-pressurising the filter baskets). The 5800 also has electronic temperature control, not a thermostat which the 3800 probably has, so the temperature stability of my machine was fairly good (its an important factor).

    The little thermoblock machines also really lack some grunt for steaming, which you cant get around...

    Leave a comment:


  • Bill44A
    replied
    Re: Subject: The Point Of Entry? Sunbeam EM3800?

    Wade Im a Moka pot brewer, and based on the advice from this forum Im convinced that the biggest single improvement I will ever get in my coffee will be when I get my Iberital grinder and start using fresh coffee.

    Leave a comment:

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