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  • #16
    Re: Backflushing explained

    Ok Ok - I hear you NOOOOOOO !!!! and promise I will buy some on Monday.

    But what is in it that does the job ? It must have something that resembles a domestic detergent or cleaner of some sort.

    Ben

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    • #17
      Re: Backflushing explained

      Not necessarily.
      Mine is non toxic (eco friendly).
      You cant say that about most household cleaners.

      Just order it from Coffee Parts, a little goes a long way.

      You probably dont wash your hair with dishwashing liquid or laundry soap so why risk putting the wring stuff into a machine that is going to make you a drink?

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      • #18
        Re: Backflushing explained

        I cant say what the active incredient is. But from feel alone, it is something extremely alkaline, alla caustic soda. But again, it is a proprietary substance which works out very cheap for the little amount needed.

        --Robusto

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        • #19
          Re: Backflushing explained

          just curious...
          in a thread a few weeks ago, someone mentioned back -flushing with Miltons and i have heard that mentioned before...if that stuff is used to remove fat/milk protein deposits from baby bottles can one assume that it will also loosen coffee oil deposits?

          L

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          • #20
            Re: Backflushing explained

            Coffee Parts "Espresso Clean", the active ingredient is Sodium Per-Carbonate 25%. In a water solution I believe it devolves into Sodium Hydroxide otherwise known as Caustic Soda. I dont know if there are other mechanisms at work with this stuff but it certainly does a very good job,

            Mal.

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            • #21
              Re: Backflushing explained

              Originally posted by Mal link=1183797909/15#19 date=1184502659
              Coffee Parts "Espresso Clean", the active ingredient is Sodium Per-Carbonate 25%. In a water solution I believe it devolves into Sodium Hydroxide otherwise known as Caustic Soda. I dont know if there are other mechanisms at work with this stuff but it certainly does a very good job,

              Mal.
              Well there you go. Thanks Mal, I should have trusted my fingers judgement.

              --Robusto

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              • #22
                Re: Backflushing explained

                Mal,

                Mmmm dont think I would want Caustic Soda in my coffee machine :exclamation [smiley=thumbdown.gif]

                From Wikipedia:

                "Sodium Percarbonate - It is a white crystalline water-soluble chemical compound. When dissolved into water, it releases H2O2 and soda ash (sodium carbonate):

                The pH of the resulting solution is typically alkaline, which activates the H2O2 for bleaching."

                So the active ingredient released is hydrogen peroxide.... made more effective as it is in a mildly alkaline solution caused by the sodium carbonate........ now Id wash my hair in that (if I had any).... and all it would do is bleach it....

                Caustic soda on the other hand :-[:exclamation

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                • #23
                  Re: Backflushing explained

                  Ooops.

                  Whatever it is, it is very alkaline. No doubt about that.

                  Doesnt affect the stainless steel or chrome soaking in a solution of the stuff (apart from leaving them nice and clean).

                  But am very careful to rinse it off the skin straight away. Right away.

                  --Robusto

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                  • #24
                    Re: Backflushing explained

                    Robusto.....

                    I think it feels worse than it is..... Sodium carbonate is produced when Bicarb soda is heated (e.g in a cake).... to produce sodium carbonate and Carbon dioxide.... which makes the cake rise..... and we eat the sodium carbonate!!

                    I think the effect is more dramatic (or feels that way) as the moisture in your hands causes the above reaction.... giving off hydrogen peroxide and producing sodium carbonate.... and the effect is to remove the oils and grease etc from the surface of the skin.....

                    Sodium Percarbonate is used in lots of detergents now (including Napisan).... because it is environmentally friendly..... its byproducts being totally safe in the environment.

                    Edit..... by the way, if you have an ion exchange water softener.... they take the incoming calcium carbonate (which causes water hardness)..... grab the calcium ion...... and replace it with a sodium ion..... making ...... you guessed it! Sodium Carbonate..... which you then drink in your coffee!!!! (admittedly only 130 ppm - and thats in Perth)!!!! So its not really that dangerous.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Backflushing explained

                      Im probably going to get reprimanded for saying this, but Ive been using plain old napisan (the one without all the extra stuff) for about 5 years in both domestic and commercial machines. As has been pointed out, its main ingredient is sodium percarbonate, and it strips the oils out extremely well. It also rinses off/out very easily.

                      I also put the dispersion screen, any other brass bits, even the group shroud if it comes off easily, and portafilter into a bowl of lukewarm water with 1 tablespoon of napisan. They come out like new.

                      NOTE: I never run it THROUGH my machines, only to clean and backflush the 3-way and external components.

                      I do this in both my Quaha and my Bezerra with no adverse affects.

                      I know the commercial espresso cleaner is relatively cheap considering how long 500g lasts, but ou can get 1kg of plain no-name nappy wash for under $3.00, and IMHO it is the same stuff. But, I am open to opinions if theres a good reason not to use this cheap alternative.

                      Scotty

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                      • #26
                        Re: Backflushing explained

                        i had a feeling these cleaning products were similar.... when i started using the proprietary brand of coffee machine cleaner, i was immediately reminded of the Miltons which i used  so many moons ago... that smell stays with you forever, i think, after standing over countless pots of the solution, fishing out baby paraphenalia....

                        and you are right,  Robusto, it does make your fingers feel as if they are dissolving, but in the end it just leaves them dry, not burned...

                        L

                        Edit: ... and smelly!!

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                        • #27
                          Re: Backflushing explained

                          Im glad Im doing my bit for the environment. Even though I didnt know. Feel even better knowing my fingers wont dissolve off.

                          --Robusto

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                          • #28
                            Re: Backflushing explained

                            Originally posted by JavaB link=1183797909/15#21 date=1184503333
                            "Sodium Percarbonate - It is a white crystalline water-soluble chemical compound. When dissolved into water, it releases H2O2 and soda ash (sodium carbonate):

                            The pH of the resulting solution is typically alkaline, which activates the H2O2 for bleaching."
                            Yep, my mistake JB.....

                            Should have performed my own research instead of quoting another source. For anyone who wants to peruse the MSDS for Sodium Percarbonate, heres the link to it on a manufacturers website,

                            MSDS for Napisan Oxy-Action Max
                            MSDS for Napisan Complete Nappy Treatment
                            MSDS for Napisan Plus Advanced Laundry Soaker

                            The Nappy Treatment Napisan looks to be the closest to just a plain Sodium Percarbonate cleaner.

                            Cheers,
                            Mal.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Backflushing explained


                              OK so we grasp a tub of napisan or sodium whatever firmly in our left hand and approach the coffee machine.

                              Then what?? Will someone please put me out of my misery and explain what you ACTUALLY DO when you backflush with a chemical.

                              I can speculate but Id rather take some advice and get it right.

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                              • #30
                                Re: Backflushing explained

                                Meetim,

                                Assuming you are using something like caffetto.....

                                Either get a blind filter (a basket without any holes) or a backflushing disk (fits in a normal basket and blocks the holes)

                                Place about half a scoop = half teaspoon (they say a whole scoop on the packet - but half seems plenty)... of the detergent in the blind filter / basket with disk

                                Insert the PF in the group as per normal....

                                Using the manual brew switch ..... switch on for about 5 seconds.... then off.... leave for 15 seconds then repeat the above 4 more times....

                                Remove the PF and wash out any remaining detergent (under the group using the manual brew switch..)

                                reinstall then do a 5 second on, 2 seconds off cycle 10 times to flush out the detergent.

                                Restore the PF to normal (normal basket - no disk.)

                                Then brew a shot of coffee.... and throw it down the sink.... this seasons the machine.

                                All is finished!

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