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  • #16
    Re: new pullman tamper

    Ok here is a photo that shows the top line closer to the basket on the left hand side than the right hand side

    N.B.
    Images resized to 600x450 to facilitate easier viewing in most browsers,
    Mal.


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    • #17
      Re: new pullman tamper

      this second pic shows the side that has the top line closest to the basket

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      • #18
        Re: new pullman tamper

        the third and final pic shows the side where the top line is furthest away from the basket.

        Now I bought the tamper and basket together from Pullman tampers, so I was hoping that it would all work together well. Does this explain why the basket spins in the portafilter?

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        • #19
          Re: new pullman tamper

          Joe,

          The tamper SHOULD NEVER go that far into the basket.... the lowest line on the tamper 7mm or somewhere between that and the second 9mm is the greatest depth the top of the puck should be from the rim....

          These baskets are designed for about 20 grams of coffee..... unlike the Silvias own baskets (14 grams only)....

          Put in 20 grams, then tamp once and all will be well!

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: new pullman tamper

            Joe,

            Is there a spring in your PF to hold the basket?

            Are you polishing (I assume that is how it is spinning) with just the weight of the tamper - which is all that is required to polish (I dont polish at all).... or are you applying weight?

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: new pullman tamper

              ok, Im still doing something wrong... When using my original plastic tamp that came with the silvia my tamp is smooth.

              But since getting the pullman tamper, my tamp keeps looking like roadworks i.e. its patchy and holey across the top...Not blaming the pullman, but just want to know where its going wrong so I can fix it.

              just tried the plastic again and its smooth.

              why is the LM basket spinning in the portafilter? I cant get the tamper out easily (with a slight twist at the end). I think this is why I am getting the tamp to look like roadworks.



              Comment


              • #22
                Re: new pullman tamper

                Originally posted by joe7238 link=1155203314/75#84 date=1187944598

                why is the LM basket spinning in the portafilter? I cant get the tamper out easily (with a slight twist at the end). I think this is why I am getting the tamp to look like roadworks.
                Joe,

                How far in is the tamper? If it is somewhere between the bottom and middle lines level with the rim (after tamping) - if so you should be able to tamp to 13.5KG, take the weight off, give the tamper a quick flick with your wrist without pressing down (if you want to polish the puck) - it should spin freely on the surface of the puck and then you should be able to just lift it out..... without any resistance.

                The other possibility was the basket was damaged somehow in shipment and is now oval....

                Was there any damage to the shipping box?

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: new pullman tamper

                  Hi Joe

                  Hang in there!

                  The basket does look like its distorted to me, particularly in the first pic.

                  Java, I think Joe was just placing the tamper in the basket without coffee to demonstrate the distortion.

                  Joe, I suggest that you get the original basket and GENTLY place the tamper into it, checking that it is a close fit (my tamper fits very closely to all the baskets I have). If ti does, fill the basket with your normal dose of coffee and try the pullman with your original basket. If there are no probs, then you can be pretty sure the prob is with the lm basket.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: new pullman tamper

                    Originally posted by JavaB link=1155203314/75#75 date=1187938329
                    Hi,

                    With our tampers the level of the puck should generally be 7mm below the lip of the basket.... which means the first line on the edge of the base will be level with the baskets edge.....
                    Well that may work with other machines, but not with the Silvia. The portafilter wont lock in to position if the basket is filled that high.


                    Originally posted by JavaB link=1155203314/75#75 date=1187938329
                    When tamped the surface of the puck should just touch the showerscreen.... which equates to about 20-21 grams of coffee in an LM double basket.
                    Again, not with the Silvia it doesnt. 21gm would be impossible to lock in! Its starting to risist locking in with 19.5gm and above. 17.5gm is the minimum that I can compress without hitting the ridge, so 18-19gm is about ideal in my machine.


                    Bill

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                    • #25
                      Re: new pullman tamper

                      Originally posted by Bill link=1155203314/75#87 date=1187947160
                      Originally posted by JavaB link=1155203314/75#75 date=1187938329
                      Hi,

                      With our tampers the level of the puck should generally be 7mm below the lip of the basket.... which means the first line on the edge of the base will be level with the baskets edge.....
                      Well that may work with other machines, but not with the Silvia. The portafilter wont lock in to position if the basket is filled that high.


                      Originally posted by JavaB link=1155203314/75#75 date=1187938329
                      When tamped the surface of the puck should just touch the showerscreen.... which equates to about 20-21 grams of coffee in an LM double basket.
                      Again, not with the Silvia it doesnt. 21gm would be impossible to lock in! Its starting to risist locking in with 19.5gm and above. 17.5gm is the minimum that I can compress without hitting the ridge, so 18-19gm is about ideal in my machine.


                      Bill
                      That largely depends on your group gasket configuration. There are a number of different thickness gaskets out there and a number of different hardnesses, and these will have a huge effect on how much you can get in the basket before you start getting gasket resistance. The gaskets that came with my machine and the ones I replaced them with caused a big difference in this regard on my Silvia, so to a degree it depends on the individual machines configuration.


                      Joe, when you say the basket is spinning in the portafilter, try putting it in the portafilter with no coffee and see how hard it is to spin by hand compared to your original Silvia baskets. My LM is slightly easier to spin than my Silvia basket but not by much, and both present moderate spinning resistance. It may be that:
                      1. the spring on your portafilter may be weaker than normal, preventing a good grip in which case both will spin similarly
                      2. the basket is slightly deeper than normal allowing it to bottom out on the bottom of the portafilter and thus not be gripped properly
                      3. the ridge is uneven (see below)

                      If theres any moisture in the beans or on the tamper, polishing normally allows this to be smoothed out and for the tamper to be removed without affecting the surface; but if the tampers not moving relative to the puck due to the basket spinning instead, you may get a bit of coffee sticking to the tamper base in some instances which will result in a torn surface as I think youre describing with the roadworks. Do you get any coffee stuck on the tamper base when this happens? The tamper surface itself, as you can see, has a high quality smooth finish so theres nothing inherent in the base itself to cause the coffee to stick to it.

                      As JavaB mentioned, you shouldnt ever be tamping so deep that the tamper bottoms out on the ridge so check your dose, but if the basket isnt being held properly in the first place for whatever reason then you may get the basket spinning even if your dose is right and the puck surface possibly sustaining damage.

                      As far as the shape of the basket itself, the ridge should be perpendicular to the top and bottom of the basket. Ive not come across any before that arent even in this way, however as the dies at the factory wear out they are replaced, so there can be subtle differences between baskets even of the same manufacturer. So long as these are limited to size, that doesnt overly affect our operations as we match the tamper to the basket before its sent out so even if the baskets a bit bigger than some others, the base we supply will be a good fit to that basket regardless. However weve never had the need to check ridge alignment as thats never been an issue in the past. It may be there are some some faults with this batch affecting things in this way.

                      Can you measure the distance from the top of the ridge to the top on the basket around the outside of the basket? If the baskets uneven such that it stops the spring working correctly, then this is a problem for LM to resolve so send it back at our cost and well arrange for it to be replaced with a properly sized one. There may be a little delay in the changeover as we check through the rest of our remaining stock and as I liaise with LM about the quality of what theyll be sending us to replace it, if it is indeed the basket.

                      HTH!

                      Greg

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: new pullman tamper

                        Can you measure the distance from the top of the ridge to the top on the basket around the outside of the basket?
                        Greg I think I know where you mean, but can you show me a diagram so I correctly measure the right area.

                        try putting it in the portafilter with no coffee and see how hard it is to spin by hand compared to your original Silvia baskets.
                        The LM basket is much harder to spin by hand than the silvia basket with no coffee in the basket. The LM basket is a much tighter fit than the silvia basket and takes considerable effort (i.e. use of fingernails) to get it out. Sometimes I think of resorting to using a utensil to get it out...

                        Do you get any coffee stuck on the tamper base when this happens?
                        Yes and no. Some coffee does get stuck (just speckles) but the patches in the puck are much bigger than the coffee that is stuck. If I use my thumb to hold onto the basket, I can stop it spinning and be able to remove the tamper. Without using my thumb, the tamper feels stuck in there and feels difficult to lift out.

                        I just had another go and managed to get the tamper right - the bottom line of the tamper was align with the ridge of the basket all the way around. However when I looked at the impression in the puck after I pulled the shot, the left wall was eroded - which makes me think that I didnt tamper it properly....

                        In order for me to get enough coffee into the basket to make the bottom of the line on the tamper align with the top of the basket, I have to grind, lightly tamper, grind, lightly tamper, grind, lightly tamper, grind and properly tamper. Is what Im doing right or wrong? This way I get the right amount of coffee into the basket and manage to pull a shot 25-30s.

                        Thanks for everyones help so far...!

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: new pullman tamper

                          Hi Joe,

                          Unfortunately an LM basket wont fit into my La Cimbali.... so I cant try with one - but the genuine La Cimbali baskets are almost exactly the same depth and diameter as the LMs (its the ridge on the LMs which wont fit into the PF).

                          When I dose the La Cimbali baskets (which take 20 grams) I dose so the grinds are just slightly mounded above the rim of the basket.... then tap on the bench to settle the grinds in the basket.

                          I then tamp once - to 13.5 Kg (you can check that on a set of bathroom scales)- and then remove the tamper (Ive also tried the quick spin polish - but dont normally do that)..... When the tamper is in the basket with 13.5 Kg applied the lowest ring on my tamper is just above the level of the basket rim.

                          Im guessing here, but maybe your grind is a bit too coarse. What sort of grinder are you using? My grinds only pack down about 6mm under 13.5 Kg force and if you require the grinds to be a bit lower for the PF to lock in properly - grinds level with the top of the basket should compress to about the correct level.

                          Tamping several times - even with just a little pressure sets the puck up in layers.... those layers result in an uneven puck.... and there is greater likelihood of channelling- especially horizontal channelling.

                          Multiple partial tamps are sometimes used to make a denser puck - to slow down the extraction rate..... whilst this works - it is not the best solution. The answer is to grind finer until, after tamping once at 13.5 Kg, you get the desired 60 ml in 25-30 seconds.

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                          • #28
                            Re: new pullman tamper

                            Hi Joe,

                            Either of the pictures below will do (but try to find a ruler that isnt broken like this one!). Its probably more reliable to stick the corner of the ruler on the ridge inside the basket and then line your eye up with the rim of the basket (get down to eye level) and measure 4-6 points around the basket diameter to see what you get. Thatll tell us if the ridge is unlevel relative to the top of the basket, and by about how much.

                            Speckles are OK, its clumps Im concerned about. Are you definitely pushing the tamper in straight? If your tamp is really uneven the tamper may jam against the sides of the basket since we generally use quite a close tolerance, but normally theres enough clearance to allow it to go a bit offline without jamming. Also are these roadworks on the puck immediately after tamping (as I have presumed) or once youve pulled the shot and removed the portafilter from the machine? If the latter then its likely to be insufficient dose or grind-related.

                            Try this; grind, fill the basket above the rim all the way to the edges (youll get some overflow wasteage but put up with it for now). Gently tap the portafilter three times on something like the portafilter rest on the grinder if you have one, or just on the bench or something to settle the grinds. At this point the heap of coffee should still be above the top of the rim all the way to the edges, but it should be lower than it was before tapping as this will settle some of the grinds. Then run the back of a knife across the top of the basket to sweep off the excess and get the surface level. You should now have freshly ground coffee evenly distributed throughout the basket and sitting level with the top. Now tamp once firmly until the bottom truetamp ring is level with the top of the basket, release the pressure and spin the tamper with your fingers to polish the surface. Now remove the tamper and photograph what you have in the basket and post it for us. Then youre welcome to run the shot and see how you go.

                            This should give a clean true puck, from which you can adjust the grind to get the flow speed right.

                            Let us know how you go. Please also post a photo of the roadworks to make sure were picturing the same thing.

                            Greg

                            P.S. what grinder do you have?

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: new pullman tamper

                              Greg - now I have had my Tamper a few months I guess I should give you some feedback.

                              It is fantastic!!!

                              It took me a wee while to get used to the flat base and the weight as I was over tamping at first and getting really hard pucks and choking the machine. It has taken away the need to double tamp.

                              I have a few friends who are woodworkers and cabinet makers and they loved the quality, and the cost - "you paid how much...???" We all loved the Redgum tortoise shell handle too.

                              This has become one of my most treasured posessions as I feel like it is a work of art that is also practical.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: new pullman tamper

                                Thanks Greg I am still looking into this - it has me stumped. I know that the basket is uneven (its obvious from my first photos), but I just havent found a way to measure where it is uneven....[scratching head]

                                In the meantime, is the tamper supposed to come with care instructions, or instructions for use, etc? Its just that I didnt even know that I was supposed to tamp to the bottom/middle line until someone on here told me. Was I supposed to receive something in the mail with the tamper?

                                Thanks

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