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  • bubbly crema again, what the hell...

    Gday,

    some of you might heard about my problems with some Sulawesi Toraja beans that I ordered recently. I got really weird bubbly crema from them and it wasnt a degassing problem bit something different. Unfortunately I dont know what. I thought that maybe this is the way its suppose to be, maybe its just the coffee, especially as my roaster says he had the same experience. But just to check I tried a new pack of Java Kayumas and...

    the same thing happened:| also got nasty bubbly crema which disappears quickly after 30s. Heres how it looks:



    Dont really know whats going on. Im slowly starting to blame freezing as thats the method I use for keeping the beans fresh for a longer time. It seems to work because I still grind at the same setting but sadly my crema is somehow broken.

    Did anyone had similar experiences with their coffee? I tried lowering the temperature, dosing more/less, changing my grinder setting and still nothing changed. Damn it those it all have to so damn hard, all I want is some decent coffee

    Cheers,
    dsc.

  • #2
    Re: bubbly crema again, what the hell...

    Dont know if freezing is the problem, but freezing certainly will produce other problems (like condensation on the beans). So IMO, you will never get a decent coffee that way. If your roaster is recommending freezing, find a different roaster.

    I think you would need to take out that variable first, as it is unlikely that most people here could compare their experiences against your current storage methods.

    How does it taste?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: bubbly crema again, what the hell...

      Gday,

      nope my roaster in not recommending freezing, I thought I would try it as I read on HB that nothing bad happens to beans if you freeze them. I had four different kinds of coffee frozen and 2 of them gave weird bubbly crema, the other two didnt, so Im not sure if freezing has anything to do with it. I tried some Sulawesi before I froze (straight out of the bag from the roaster and Im sure it was degased because it was 6 days old) it and it also gave a lot of bubbles on the crema.

      When it comes to taste its not bad, but that 10s crema and that ammount of bubbles really makes me wonder if this is normal to those kinds of coffee or is there smth else connected with it.

      Cheers,
      dsc.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: bubbly crema again, what the hell...

        dsc, why not remove freezing and try again?? and see if the bubbling stops?

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: bubbly crema again, what the hell...

          gaggia classic, eh? i think its a pressure problem. check your opv setting and maybe tighten it up a touch (increase the pressure a little)

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: bubbly crema again, what the hell...

            Gday,

            Marc: cant really try unfrozen beans because I put the whole pack in the fridge. But I can always order some new beans and try them out without any freezing

            early_morning_: yup its a Classic and it had its OPV turned down to 9.5bar. Im curious why do you suggest increasing the pressure?

            Tried dosing less today and had smaller bubbles but the crema disappeared much faster. I have no idea whats going on

            Cheers,
            dsc.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: bubbly crema again, what the hell...

              I dont get this problem myself, however the crema problem I have figured out based on myexperience.

              Once my beans start getting older >10 days, the crema doesnt hold for very long. Especially if using a cup with a larger surface area. The Classic is a bit of a bugger with crema results in relation to bean freshnesss too. Once they start getting a bit old or have been frozen you are guaranteed to have issues with crema disappearing. It is part of the fussiness of the Classic, unfortunately.

              I am not sure how often you see your roaster but I would suggest purchasing smaller quantities. Maybe get a two week supply that have been roasted a few days apart and using the older beans the first week and the younger beans the next for optimum freshness. Keep them stored in a cool dark cupboard and do not freeze them.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: bubbly crema again, what the hell...

                DSC and others, I get bubbly crema...sometimes. Ive thought nothing of it until now.

                I home roast and look after my beans. They are carefully stored in a cool dark place and definitely not frozen!

                I use a Gaggia Coffee Deluxe, and unlike the Classic, the OPV is not adjustable and has no 3-way solenoid.

                So I dont think freezing is the cause - might affect the taste. Whether its OPV is inetersting though seeing as the Coffee Deluxe is not adjustable.

                Could grind/tamp/heat be a cause?

                Javabeen..

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: bubbly crema again, what the hell...

                  For me, bubbly crema is an issue with beans that are used too soon after roasting- they are very volatile and often the bubbles are CO2 gas. Just a thought.
                  Regards
                  Brett

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: bubbly crema again, what the hell...

                    Ive played with my OPV - i cant tell you what its set to, but when it was at the lower end (ie flowing less than 100mL in 30 seconds) my shots were a lot thicker and "bubblier". they were almost like foam.

                    so i adjusted the opv to a bit above 100ml in 30secs and it reduced the "bubbliness". now the crema is still thick and the extractions are strong, but not so bubbly anymore.

                    also, fyi im using roasts from my local, so i cant really comment on the age of the beans. i tend to get striping until ive had them for a few days, so im inclined to believe theyre not quite "ripe" when i get them...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: bubbly crema again, what the hell...

                      Gday,

                      so I decided to roast some greens in the following week, will see how freshness affects the extractions.

                      I know that the Classic can be a PITA when it comes to fresh coffee and that it is a bit picky. Still its strange to get such bubbly and disappearing crema straight from the bag one week after roasting.

                      I guess I will have to order smaller quantities, even if I have to make more orders and pay more for shipping. My roaster lives 350km away, but Ive heard that a new one appeared in a nearby city, so I might pay him a visit and check out his coffee.

                      The crema is foam like, but thats not the biggest problem. The worst thing is that it disappears almost completely in 20-30s. It could be the OPV setting or a too light roast. My roaster checked those roasts at home and got less bubbles and they were smaller, so Im guessing it might have smth to do with the water pressure in my machine.

                      Cheers,
                      dsc.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: bubbly crema again, what the hell...

                        The bubbly crema is a result of heat - too much of it.

                        I found this out playing with the PID kit I just installed on my Gaggia Coffee Deluxe. I was pulling shots with the PNG Peaberry SO blend I roasted with the PID set at 100 celsius and noticed the shots tasted burnt. So I dropped the PID temp to 97 and NO BUBBLES. Also, the burnt taste went away, and I got nice thick, velvety crema.

                        Ive also just added and adjustable OPV to my machine thinking this would solve the bubbly crema problem but alas it did not. Just gave me a more constant flow which is essential.

                        I did a few tests increasing and decreasing the temp. Same consitent results. PID at 100 gives bubbly crema, PID at 97 gives no bubbles.

                        It also depends on the bean variety - some Brazil beans I roasted the other day gave very little bubbles, but hey are also a much lighter roast.

                        So to sum up, looks like temp and bean variety/roast profile can cause bubbly crema.

                        Try also bleeding out any excess pressure from the boiler by opening the steam valve/wand before pulling a shot if you dont have a PID. This might help.

                        Hope this helps,
                        Javabeen PIDing.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: bubbly crema again, what the hell...

                          Gday,

                          thanks for the tips Javabeen

                          I also think thats its a matter of bean type and temperature. Unfortunately I havent got a PID, so I can set my temps so accurately.

                          Cheers,
                          dsc.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: bubbly crema again, what the hell...

                            Originally posted by lucinda link=1184972635/0#6 date=1185243431
                            Once my beans start getting older >10 days, the crema doesnt hold for very long. Especially if using a cup with a larger surface area.
                            Interesting, I pulled an espresso thing morning using a blend that was > 20 days old (thats when it peaks)....everyone was telling how awesome it tasted at work, so I knew it was on because its just at the right amount of days. The espresso sat on the bench for a good 2 to 3 minutes whilst I continued to pump out orders. By the time I came to it, the crema was still well intact....perfect for competition...100% arabica.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: bubbly crema again, what the hell...

                              DSC,

                              I had a temp probe attached to the top of my boiler before I bought the PID kit. This let me monitor the temp of the boiler. I then puller a 30 sec shot of just water into a styrofoam cup under the group head and checked the water temp. This was my way of "calibrating" the temp probe read out to the group head water temp. From this I was able to play with cool flushing and also using the steam switch to increase the boiler temp. This was excellent to steaming as I could tell when the steam thermostat was going to cut out and start steaming before it did.

                              I suggest you get yourself a digital multi meter with a temp rpobe if you want to do this. Got mine for $20 from an electronics store.

                              Cheers,
                              Javabeen.

                              Comment

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