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PID Mod for Silvias, Gaggias, etc

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  • PID Mod for Silvias, Gaggias, etc

    Hi All,

    Just wondering if anyone has found a source for reasonable quality PID temp controllers that could be used for espresso machine boiler control?

    If so, wheres the best place to get one from in terms of price and support? All the best,

    Dimal.

  • #2
    Re: PID Mod for Silvias, Gaggias, etc

    Anyone ??

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: PID Mod for Silvias, Gaggias, etc

      See my reply to Ed Vinas in his thread "PIDing Silvia......" in the "General Coffee Related..." section. I bought a PI controller from RS (www.rsaustralia.com.au) after looking into importing. They also do a West PID that seems comparable to the Fuji unit people are buying in the US for around $250 (which is what I would buy if I had it to do again). Be a little careful with the prices there, from memory they dont include GST.

      Im sure RS arent the cheapest, but they have an online presence and are easy enough to deal with. Plus you can also buy your SSR and thermocouple off them.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: PID Mod for Silvias, Gaggias, etc

        Hi Mark,

        Thanks for that. I read your post the other day as a matter of fact and it was this that prompted me to ask if anyone had identified a reliable source for the Fuji or similar units.

        Ive since been able to track down similar units, one from a company called Eurotherm and another from Omron Australia. The going price on the Eurotherm unit is as you intimated at approx $250.00 plus GST. From what Ive been able to research on this unit, it would appear to be superior to the much favoured Fuji but it is not "cheap".

        Still waiting to hear back from Omron and from experience in using their products in the past, I would expect their unit to be slightly less expensive than the Eurotherm which has a somewhat Rolls Royce reputation. Ive used Radio Spares quite a bit in the past too and as you say, they are a very reliable and user friendly source but the prices one pays are always near the top echelon.

        If you like, Ill report back on price details once I have them all in my hot little hands? Im not quite ready to make the financial outlay just yet, be a couple of months til Im ready as Im in still in the research and fact gathering phase at this stage. All the best,

        Dimal.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: PID Mod for Silvias, Gaggias, etc

          Digging through some spare parts around the place Ive come across a Brainchild BTC-9300 PID Process/temperature controller. I think new they are worth about $230+GST.

          Ive now ordered an SSR $28

          Im planning to attack my Gaggia Classic when time permits one weekend during the next month.

          I start a seperate thread and take lots of pics results etc.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: PID Mod for Silvias, Gaggias, etc

            Originally posted by HV_MAN link=1102703274/0#4 date=1106264145
            Digging through some spare parts around the place Ive come across a Brainchild BTC-9300 PID Process/temperature controller. I think new they are worth about $130+GST.
            Hi HV_MAN,

            You wouldnt still have a contact address/URL/E-mail for the company you bought it from would you? Would be greatly appreciated if you could point me in the right direction.

            Cheerio,
            Mal.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: PID Mod for Silvias, Gaggias, etc

              Originally posted by Mal link=1102703274/0#5 date=1106489403

              Hi HV_MAN,

              You wouldnt still have a contact address/URL/E-mail for the company you bought it from would you? Would be greatly appreciated if you could point me in the right direction.

              Cheerio,
              Mal.
              Hi Mal
              Sorry to get you excited, I stuffed up/missed typed the costing it cost $230+gst not $130+gst. sorry.... :-[

              we got it from ecefast, I think their www is:

              www.ecefast.com.au

              Ringup them up they do cheaper than their listed price and not all their products are shown.

              Again sorry for the incorrect info.

              Cheers,
              Craig

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: PID Mod for Silvias, Gaggias, etc

                No worries Craig,

                Sounds like about the same price for equivalent Omron and Eurotherm units. Ill just have to save up the extra biccies and go for one of those Id say.

                Thanks anyway for the info though, much appreciated. All the best,

                Mal.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: PID Mod for Silvias, Gaggias, etc

                  Hi again All,

                  Decided to take Craigs advice and contact http://www.ecefast.com.au/ . In short, I could not be happier with the level of service I received, the assistance offered and then the discount provided. Definitely an A1 company to do business with.

                  Have been offered a full spec PID Controller (48mm x 48mm) and the thermocouple for an all up price of $200.00 including GST. They also have a range of SSRs too at very reasonable prices so will no doubt order one of these as well.

                  The chap to ask for is Jim Walker, a very helpful man. Will keep posted as things progress. Have decided to mount the unit in its own enclosure external to the Mokita via a short section of flexible metallic conduit, in keeping with the overall polished s/s appearance.

                  Thanks again Craig, excellent reference. All the best,

                  Mal.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: PID Mod for Silvias, Gaggias, etc

                    Mal, great to hear. Please let us know how it goes.

                    Cheers
                    Ed

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: PID Mod for Silvias, Gaggias, etc

                      Originally posted by ed_vinas link=1102703274/0#9 date=1107032986
                      Mal, great to hear. Please let us know how it goes.

                      Cheers
                      Ed
                      No Worries Ed,

                      Will do. Most likely will complete over the next few weeks so will take photos throughout the process and post these up upon completion as a kind of How to for others who might be contemplating the same mod. All the best,

                      Mal.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: PID Mod for Silvias, Gaggias, etc

                        Have been offered a full spec PID Controller (48mm x 48mm) and the thermocouple for an all up price of $200.00 including GST. They also have a range of SSRs too at very reasonable prices so will no doubt order one of these as well.
                        Well, believe it or not Ive managed to find an even better value supplier of quality PID Temp Ctrlrs. Ive only just received a quote back from them and they offer a similar quality Ctrlr but for only AUD$143.00 Incl. GST. I think this is going to be hard to beat and if you are interested, contact "Ron Fowler" of OneTemp Pty Ltd, website located at http://www.onetemp.com.au/ .

                        Ron is also a very helpful chap and more than willing to offer his knowledge and experience with regard to PID control. Glad I waited until the last quote came in. All the best,

                        Mal.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: PID Mod for Silvias, Gaggias, etc

                          Good to hear they are looking after you.

                          onetemp is also a company I occasionally deal with, again very good to deal with. They have been around a long time under a different name which I currently cant remember....

                          What models are they offering?

                          Remember not all temperature controllers offer PID & fuzzy logic etc. not that Im an expert in these things.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: PID Mod for Silvias, Gaggias, etc

                            Hi HV_MAN,

                            Remember not all temperature controllers offer PID & fuzzy logic etc. not that Im an expert in these things
                            Appreciate what youre saying. Its ok though as I used to work with industrial control systems, SCADA, DCS and the like so I know how to interpret the specs and data and stuff.

                            As a matter of fact, used to be in control of a team who were among the first to incorporate Fuzzy Logic algorithms into large scale DCS and it was a very rewarding experience in terms of knowledge gained. Ah, those were the days but a long time ago now, close to twelve or thirteen years I guess.

                            Anyway, its not essential to use a controller that incorporates FL as part of its control strategy, straight PID with Auto-Tuning is plenty powerful enough to accomplish what is needed in an espresso machine. Something that is worth thinking about though, is a multi-channel controller that can both control the boiler Brew Temp and then the Steam Temp as the operator demands. These units are usually a bit more expensive, probably in the same range as a PID/FL controller, but offer a lot more practicallity.

                            Comes down to Horses for Courses as it always does in the end. If you want a PID/FL controller, go for it. You probably wont notice any difference in operation for this particular task but it might give you a warm, fuzzy feeling inside (sorry about the pun).

                            In short, the PID Controller from OneTemp is almost identical to the unit offered by "ECEFAST" but at considerable discount. I think the difference is due to OneTemp being a supplier to the OEM market and as such, the higher volume throughput results in lower prices. Thats my take on it anyway. Hope some of my diatribe has been of assistance. All the best,

                            Mal.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: PID Mod for Silvias, Gaggias, etc

                              Ive got everything under control except where to put the thermocouple on the Gaggias boiler. :-/

                              The classic in stock form has 2 thermostats one mounted at the bottom side of the boiler for espresso temp and the other at the top of the boiler for steam. Both of these are a screw in type.

                              Q1/ Does the thermostat have direct contact with water? (I dont want to disturb it is I dont have to)

                              Q2/ If Q1 = NO. Where is the best point to mount the thermocouple to the boiler top of bottom?

                              Q3/ If Q1 = YES. Should I acquire a thermocouple that in mounted into a screw fitting or not bother and mount it on the outside of the boiler. If the screw in type thermocouple is the go where to mount it top of bottom?

                              Q4/ Anyone known the type of thread? etc

                              Cheers
                              Craig

                              Comment

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