Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

seasoning shot after backflush

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • seasoning shot after backflush

    When i first started backflushing, i used to use a fresh grind to do the seasoning shot afterwards.

    Now, i have started using the excess grinds that are left over daily. I backflush every 2 days or so, and generally have one full shots worth of coffee in my overgrind cup (the cup i use to dose out whatever is left in my doser that im not going to use)

    I cant notice any difference in te flavour of my coffees in doing so. I am under the assumption that the reason i do a seasoning shot is to remove any residual cafetto impart a coffee hint on the shower screen. is this correct?

    does anyone else use stale grounds for their seasoning shot?

  • #2
    Re: seasoning shot after backflush

    Originally posted by raphec link=1227410944/0#0 date=1227410944
    does anyone else use stale grounds for their seasoning shot?
    Yes, I do. I flush the stale coffee out of the grinder before each use, just a few grams worth, and put this coffee in a container in the freezer. I keep adding to this each day, and then use it for seasoning shots after backflushing, which I do about once a fortnight. It surprisingly still produces a reasonable crema with this stale coffee too.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: seasoning shot after backflush

      Yes. The seasoning shot is to remove any traces of the backflush detergent used.

      I sometimes use leftover grounds for my seasoning shot. Although I dont bother putting them in the freezer. They just go into a small container next to the knockbox.

      The other option which I tend to use more these days is to do my clean when I change my beans and use a dial-in of the grinder shot for seasoning.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: seasoning shot after backflush

        I havent had left overs for ages and ages now so have to use fresh beans for my seasoning shot.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: seasoning shot after backflush

          When I do the split second grind to get rid of what is in the chute I thwack that out of the doser and into a little bowl (coffee coloured of course) and it builds up...once a month I use Caffetto and then season with those old grinds. I do a proper dose and tamp and funnily enough it looks just like supermarket coffee....thin, sour looking (and smelling) and twisty from the off, with no body

          Cheers

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: seasoning shot after backflush

            so im not alone

            hmmm i backflush every 2 days or so. i was worried someone would tell me this isnt enough, seems like i may be doing it too much!

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: seasoning shot after backflush

              I worked at a place where the owner told me to serve the seasoning shot to the morning senior walkers. I turned around and said to him "Ill serve it to you and see how you like it" which he replied "But they cant tase the differnce." Neverless I never did and they wondered why sales went down after I left....

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: seasoning shot after backflush

                Backflushing a home machine with chemical every 2 days is too much. Backflushing with water only after each shot and using a stiff brush (like the one from coffeeparts that allows cleaning whilst the water is running through the open group without scalding) is the go and then a chemical every month (or if you are really keen every couple of weeks depending in useage). I use mine a lot - stays on 24/7 (although once every week or so I drain the boiler and then re-fill with fresh). Too much backflushing with chemical is worse than too little.

                Cheers

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: seasoning shot after backflush

                  Originally posted by ozscott link=1227410944/0#7 date=1227524300
                  Backflushing a home machine with chemical every 2 days is too much.  Backflushing with water only after each shot and using a stiff brush (like the one from coffeeparts that allows cleaning whilst the water is running through the open group without scalding) is the go and then a chemical every month (or if you are really keen every couple of weeks depending in useage).  I use mine a lot - stays on 24/7 (although once every week or so I drain the boiler and then re-fill with fresh).  Too much backflushing with chemical is worse than too little.
                  At the Golden Bean, Chris Short from Cafetto mentioned that he is about to release a study that pretty much proves the opposite.

                  Theres a school of thought that goes that the less you use your machine, the more you need to backflush it.

                  If you use your machine, you leave behind oils on the dispersion block. A clean water backflush will not dislodge these oils. Pulling a subsequent shot might dislodge at least some of them ... into the shot. If you backflush once a month, that means that this process continues for a month, whilst the oil on your dispersion block oxidises and becomes more and more rancid - smell it! If you backflush once a week, at least you are getting rid of the oil sooner. Or at least, thats my understanding.

                  Personally, I backflush every week and I can taste the difference; twice a week would probably be about right. If you have an e61, you need to keep in mind that over-zealous backflushing can eat away at the grease that lubricates the lever. I think that the solution is to use a very small amount of cafetto quite often.

                  The included scoop is, IMHO, far too big, even for commercial use. At home, you only really need to use something like 1/8th of that scoop, but you need to allow the detergent time to do its thing - lock your detergent containing blind filter in, run the pump, flick the pump off, then let it sit for two minutes. After that, pulse the pump a few more times, dump the contents of the handle and do a clean water backflush. I have switched over to the EVO version of cafetto and a few of my friends have reported that it is less aggressive on the grease in the e61. According to Chris Short, EVO is totally biodegradable - a day or two after going down the sink, all that is left of it is water and carbon dioxide. An occasional backflush with a bit of restore descaler or citric acid is recommended to remove scale in the group - provided that it isnt made of aluminium. All espresso machine detergents are alkaline and incapable of removing scale, but scale will lower the effectiveness of detergents.

                  As for weekly draining of the boiler; I wonder if that mightnt cause problems. Heating the water up will cause scale to deposit. Once it reaches temperature, at some stage it will reach an equilibrium whereby no more scale will precipitate. By replacing the water with fresh water, you introduce more calcium that will precipitate. So by changing the water over that frequently, you might actually be causing far more calcium to deposit than if you just left it alone. If you arent drinking the water from the boiler, I wouldnt have thought that theres much incentive to do this - all that youre really using it for is for steam ... and maybe any little bit that might be injected into the HX, depending on your machine. In fact, I have heard of people with domestic HX machines filling the boilers with distilled water with just enough salt added to allow the probes to register. That way, if they dont use the tap much, theres less calcium in the boiler to deposit.

                  Cheers,

                  Luca

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: seasoning shot after backflush

                    I detergent backflush once very 3 weeks or more. Prior to a recent backflush I removed the shower screen and seal and yes there was a certain amount of oil left behind.

                    I agree that one scoop of detergent is too much - there is always a lot of undissolved detergent left behind which is wasted. I have been using 1/3 teaspoon of detergent, adding a bit of water & agitating a bit to dissolve before inserting the handle into the grouphead. After the first pull of the lever I havent been waiting 2 mins - normally about 30 secs. Is waiting longer advisable or does that depend on how often the backflush is carried out?

                    On the third flush, I also now gently jiggle the pf in the grouphead and Ive noticed more coffee oil is sometimes removed. I then clean water backflush until the water being dispensed into the tray is clear. Then a seasoning shot

                    The brew lever is always stiff but after comes good after a couple of normal shots

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: seasoning shot after backflush

                      Even after all this, I think its a good idea to take the time to take off the shower screen and gasket and get out the screwdriver and take off the dispersion block. I hadnt for a while thinking that my cleaning/backflushing regime would have taken care of it. I took it off the other day and it was black and gunky (the dispersion block, that is).

                      What Luca mentioned about the dispersion block getting caked on is true.

                      Gotta get me some of that EVO stuff.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: seasoning shot after backflush

                        I tend to backflush with detergent every 7-14 days.
                        I got a Pallo coffee brush which has a little scoop on the end. I use this as my measure for caffetto. Seems about right to me (much smaller than the scoop supplied with the cleaner).
                        I also follow the method outlined by Luca above. I dissolve the small amount in the blind, lock and run for a short time and then leave my lever in the middle position for a minute or two to let it soak. First release after that seems to be very gunky and immdiately tightens the lever a little.

                        I did my group seal last week and checked my shower screen. Just a couple of tiny spots on it. Swapped over to my new screen, but have kept the old one, just gave it a proper soak in caffetto and came up fine.

                        Unfortunately, I had to go to coffeeparts website to order my next group seal and of course, found all this extra stuff I needed. Whee!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: seasoning shot after backflush

                          I use white vinegar to neutralise the coffee detergent after a backflush.  Also use it to rinse the portafilters and baskets after a detergent or soap wash.  Then I use hot water from the boiler to backflush the vinegar away - and rinse off the vinegar from the portafilters / baskets.

                          I also backflush just with vinegar then hot water from the boiler.  I find this reduces the frequency of detergent backflushing required.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: seasoning shot after backflush

                            Ok, this is from my experience and in no way an end all, but I clean my machines everytime. I do not have any problems with any of my machines and once seasoned, they taste and work the same every day.

                            There is no evidence that the using chem harms the machine (aside from a little extra cost).

                            As mentioned above the worse thing for the machine is a build up in oils, which can solidify and cause many types of problems. Most machines sent in for service is from a lack of cleaning (Im sure service guys reading this will back me up here)

                            I recommend washing with chemical every time you use the machine. Make sure you wash out all the chemical with back flushing until the water runs clear, also included in this is your group handles.

                            Your machine is now as good as new!

                            To season the machine, use fresh grind! and fresh grind only!

                            Using stale coffee will season the machine with stale coffee. Use fresh and keep everything as nice tasting as possible.

                            Also you should be keeping your grinder as clean as possible to avoid any build up of oils, which in turn produces more problems such as blunt blades, build up and so on... Modify a paint brush to get as much of the grind out every night.

                            Keeping things clean as possible and as fresh as possible is a good habit to get into!

                            Although I have to confess here I only do my shower screen once a week. If you back wash every night you tend to get a minimal build up inside the shower screen. I went from every night to once a week quite a while ago and have noticed no change in flavor or effect to my machines.

                            Why risk flavor and maintenance cost on a few cents of left over coffee.

                            DONOT put your grind or coffee beans in the freezer!!!!!!!!!!!!

                            A dark air tight container at room temperature is sufficient. I put mine into a cupboard to avoid any big differences in Temp overnight.

                            Remember freshness is the key to great tasting coffee. Do as much as you can to ensure freshness at all costs!


                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: seasoning shot after backflush

                              No offence to you MaxPower, clean your machine every hour if you like, but honestly I have neither the time or desire to chemical clean my machine after every coffee it makes. The guy I brought it off siad to do it once a week, after reading Luca post I will cut back the amount of detergent I use, seriously max I cant see any advantage it cleaning to that level unless your machine is in a cafe (and then i figure the lock up crew would clean before going home). Whilst I realise cleaning is an essential part of your coffee machine to keep it new, given I paid over 2 K for my set up I figure the manufacturer would take the cleaning/use of a domestic machine, there is absolutely no way known I would spend 2k on something that needed the level of preventative maintanence that you partake in.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X